[Rockdog]

So, mentioned in previous post the cast steering support bracket was not bolted in place on my tractor when I picked it up. The support itself was approx. 3/4" above the bolt holes in the frame and the steering wheel would not allow it to come down to alignment. It had an old GMC steering wheel on it which it appears someone welded and insert to it which matched the steering shaft diameter and had a key slot in it. Along with this it also had a plastic assembly with a roller bearing in it which I recall was part of the original Saginaw column - this basically just acted like a 3/8" space between the wheel and the bushing at steering tube on the tower.

The steering shaft bushing was roll pinned to the shaft (parts manuals dont show this so I'm assuming someone did this on their own). I'm assuming they simply installed the bushing, steering colum 'bearing asm', and GMC wheel/insert onto the steering shaft and then the wheel nut and then used that to determine where to drill the shaft and bushing for the roll pin. Problem is in doing so they didnt bother to make sure the support bracket at the bottom was in the correct location. This is a rectifiable issue and am looking at a couple of different ways to do it.

First and simplest would be to shorten the steering tube on the tower (frame is heavily repaired, drilled due to previous loader attachment/reinforcement, etc. and not fit for a restoration so not concerned about it. Would just have to make sure there is adequate clearance between steering wheel and control levers. I havent measured yet but it appears if the automotive column bearing assembly was left off it would be just about right.

Second involves elimination of the roll pin in the steering shaft and using a different steering wheel which is not sleeved as far down the shaft itself. Anybody have a steering wheel off one of these (old enough to have threaded nut) and can tell me the lenght of steering shaft extending above the bushing at the tube?

 

[fjmg]

Both of mine have the wheel on but after removing cover and some arithmetic; 1.75" from top of bushing to end of threaded shaft.

 

[Rockdog]

Thanks a bunch. I appreciate it. I'll measure mine up tonight and see if I'm in the ball park.

 

[eBoyDog]

I'm trying to make an image of what this looks like, is the steering wheel shaft been cut short or am I just missing the whole picture? Are you wanting to reuse steering wheel you have?

Got any pictures?

With the steering wheel shaft being too short, would it be easier to find another steering wheel shaft/rod and start rebuilding from the lower support bar up?

Might look at Gary's Place for a steering wheel, back in Feb when I broke mine on my 220 I emailed him and he had them in stock..... http://www.gphope.com/store/730 $36 bucks

That whole black column melted you described awhile back confused me....

 

[Rockdog]

Upon removal I realized the black 'steering wheel support' (black sleeve under wheel) appears to be nothing more than a rubber cover for the steering tube on the tower. Doesnt appear to do anything. The top couple inches of the one on my tractor had been melted. Probably someone put a torch to the wheel/hub to get it off (maybe it was broken) and replaced it with an old GMC steering wheel and bearing asm.

I dont believe the steering shaft has been cut down at all. Still has the threads on the wheel end and looks OK.

According to parts manuals the 200s and 400s take the same shaft so doesnt appear it couled have the 'wrong' (shorter) shaft in it. I recall Tom or someone else had mentioned in a previous thread that 200s had a shorter tower than 400s and I was worried they also had a shorter steering shaft. Guess not.

What I think happened is someone wanted to use the GMC Wheel and Bearing Asm which extended farther down the steering shaft (from the threaded end) than the original steering wheel. They removed the lower support casting mounting bolts which allowed the 'new' wheel and bearing to fit under the nut at the top end. For some reason they drilled the shaft bushing and shaft in order to install a small roll pin which did not extend beyond the diameter of the bushing body. The bushing still fit into the steering tube but rotated with the shaft rather than the shaft rotating in the tube.

I think they install the roll pin into the bushing and shaft because the hub on the ID of the GMC Wheel (they welded a key slotted hub to the hub of the GMC Wheel to fit the tractor steering shaft) was slightly loose (I pulled it right off the shaft with a slight tug after removing the nut) and it allowed the nut to 'preload' the steering wheel a little bit and remove some 'slop'? But who knows...

I wasnt going to put an original steering wheel on it because they go for quite a bit of money on ebay but $36 sounds pretty cheap really. I honeslty believe if I remove the bearing assembly which was placed on prior to the GMC Wheel that everything will work OK. Except for the ugly wheel. Right now I just want to get the steering support mounted properly and just want any ol steering wheel on it so I can move it around while getting the bottom side painting and parts replacement completed. Steering wheel is sort of a 'last item' kind of thing in my book right now.

 

[eBoyDog]

Yuck, I guess I'm too much a detail person but I hate when people make really bad repair jobs and don't go that extra step to fix something right. I see someone wanting to fix a broken steering wheel so they can get up and going but to put a car/truck steering wheel on it?

Steering wheel can be more important that you might think, I dismissed my worn one on the 220 I had over the winter until the big snow in Feb. when I broke it in two. I'm a rather big guy and I forget sometimes how much force I can put in something esp when stuck on a 3 foot snow drift and push the steering wheel instead of pushing the seat... Bad feeling to take the steering wheel for granted until it breaks!

As I'm trying to fix my steering wheel pivot pin on the lower gear, I'm taking my 446 steering wheel off just so that if the time arises that if it breaks, I can get it off with little issue. So far it's rusted in firm with the shaft but got the nut off and a couple screw drivers wedged in under it, all soaking in PB liquid wrench overnight. I fogot I had a pulling gear so in a couple days I will give it a shot in pulling it off.

I measured the shaft and height, total height from dash to top edge of the plastic steering wheel is 8 1/2 inches, that plastic collar on mine is just a hair over 5 1/2 inches. I think yours should be about the same, my 446 is '74 model year. I will post pictures up here in minute.

 

[Rockdog]

Thanks Eboydog. The dim I wanted to confirm was from the top of the steering tube to top of the shaft (threaded end) when bottom end is in correct position/location. The approx. 1&3/4" from PPer is pretty much right on with mine so I think I'm good parts wise.

Not sure what the previous owner had done to this thing. It had a loader on it and 5/8" thick steel side rails along the outside of the frame rails and also a boxed section of 3" or 4" angle laterally accross them. After I removed all 75 lbs or so of that the steering and travel control went nuts. I think the loader reinforcement/mounts put the squeeze to the frame rails and the lower steering support couldnt be forced down into its correct position so the guy just kept adding 'spacers' (original automotive bearing asm) under the steering wheel hub to take up the added length at the top end (above steering tube).

Yeah, GMC steering wheel is pretty ugly. But you gotta remember that this is nothing more than an old garden tractor and it really isnt a restoration candidate. Whoever put it on there probably threw on what they had or could afford at the time. I'm just getting up to snuff mechancially and giving it an 'Earl Scheib' paintjob, etc. If I change out the steering wheel then I'm gonna have to change the Walmart fishing boat seat as well.

Are the original steering wheel hubs an interference fit to the steering shaft?

 

[eBoyDog]

Are the original steering wheel hubs an interference fit to the steering shaft?

The few that I have seen are, there has been 1 or 2 washers on the shaft inbetween the steering wheel and the shaft collar with a plastic bushing in the shaft below the washers.

If I get my steering wheel off, I will measure that shaft length on mine but what you said should be about right.

 

[eBoyDog]

Thanks Eboydog. The dim I wanted to confirm was from the top of the steering tube to top of the shaft (threaded end) when bottom end is in correct position/location. The approx. 1&3/4" from PPer is pretty much right on with mine so I think I'm good parts wise.

Got my steering wheel off with mixed emotions, let's just say it didn't come off properly but instead the plastic pulled off leaving the metal collar that the was intended to slide over the steering wheel shaft which means that Im going to be buying a new steering wheel (after having one break in blizzard, I perfectly fine with it breaking in shop).

Having done this once before I manage to cut a slit done that metal coller with a dremel and take a chisel and knock it off by expanding it. threads on the shaft are a little roughened up but thing ruining it.

For the measurements with the steering shaft in a normal postion, mine measures 2" from the steering column shaft to the top of the shaft. there might be room for some difference but mine is rather tight and until I broke the steering gear pivot pin.

 

[Rockdog]

Hmmm. That stinks. No way I'm spending $75 + on a replacement wheel cause I keep reading on this site about them breaking when trying to remove.

Wonder what would happen if you 'pushed' the shaft down rather than trying to pull the wheel up?

 

[eBoyDog]

Might work a little but the gear on the bottom of the shaft will stop when hits the rockshaft which it has to be removed (lift arm included) to allow the steering shaft to go down that much. Have to be carefull too so that the thread on the top of the shaft don't get damaged since the only thing I know to use is a hammer to force the shaft down.

 

[Rockdog]

Nothings ever easy when it should be.

 

[eBoyDog]

I have no issue with buying a new steering wheel. when the new one is put on, I will use a little marine grade axel grease to keep it rust free as possible and I won't be leaving it out in the rain so that little cup in the center and fill up with water!

Of all the engineering that was so good with Case, they really messed up that water catching design with the steering wheels caps.

 

[Stewart]

I have no issue with buying a new steering wheel. when the new one is put on, I will use a little marine grade axel grease to keep it rust free as possible and I won't be leaving it out in the rain so that little cup in the center and fill up with water!

Of all the engineering that was so good with Case, they really messed up that water catching design with the steering wheels caps.

Hey Eboy

I've had the same thoughts with mine.

My new wheel will get liberal amounts of anti-seize and then I'm going to silicone the cap onto the wheel. This should keep the water out. :fingerscrossed: :thumbsup:

Stewart

 

[Rockdog]

I think I'd just drill a small drain hole rather than the silicone thing. Some silicones off-gas some stuff that screws up certain plastics big time. Plus if the silicone leaked at all things would end up much worse.