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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
646-76 SN 9732149

So I went to change the oil and the filter wouldn't come off. I thought could the threads run backwards or something crazy? Well the tin was bent and jammed up into the filter. I could have *$!&! someone with my bare hands. So I straightened out the tin and got the filter off. It weighed about a 100 lb.s. Tells me they gave up on changing it.

Oil was very dirty but no metal specs. I replaced with genuine Kohler straight 30. Before I heated her up for the oil change I wiped down the hydraulic lines etc. to see where the leaks were.

I believe the hydraulic pump is leaking where the shaft comes out to attach to Love Joy. Oil blasts all over and I can't really use the FEL until I get this squared away. Question is this a common weak point?
So do I send the pump out for a rebuild or can I do it myself? Page 73B of parts manual has a specific breakdown of the pump.
Does anyone know who made this pump?

I tried to get the Case Air Filter housing no luck.
Boomer set me up with his friend and I have a filter housing ordered from him. Its not the exact Case setup but with Boomer's guidance it will work. Boomer is extremely knowledgeable with regards to the Onans and very helpful. A real decent guy.

She's a little smokey but I don't think awful. It seems to clear up and I think the FEL liked the oil change.

Noticed (duh) I have no plastic fan because the entire PTO is gone but the CCKA has fins. Is this acceptable for hydraulic cooling by itself?

:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
 

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Engine Oil/Filter issue. If I were you, I would install an hour meter on this tractor. Put it under the hood so you don't have to butcher the dash. Then change the oil and filter again after ten hours.

Hydraulic Pump issue. Don't screw around trying to resurrect a worn out pump. It's just not worth the time and money. Before I tell you which pump to buy, you need to measure the center to center distance between the two mounting bolts. You don't need to be super accurate because there is an inch or so difference between a double A pump and a single A pump.


Here is where I begin to bytch slap you. :sidelaugh:

As the very person who suggests to Newbies that they check out our extensive Library of FAQ's and manuals, why have YOU not consulted the Library for the correct Parts Manual for your loader? Seems to me, the manual clearly show that the 646's do not have the plastic fan but the 644's do. And there was also a recent discussion on that very issue.

But FYI..the plastic or metal fans have nothing to do with engine cooling. They are there for hydraulic cooling.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hydriv said:
Here is where I begin to bytch slap you. :sidelaugh:
As the very person who suggests to Newbies that they check out our extensive Library of FAQ's and manuals, why have YOU not consulted the Library for the correct Parts Manual for your loader? Seems to me, the manual clearly show that the 646's do not have the plastic fan but the 644's do. And there was also a recent discussion on that very issue.
But FYI..the plastic or metal fans have nothing to do with engine cooling. They are there for hydraulic cooling.
Tom: EP-EM I HAVE CONSULTED THE LIBRARY. The first thing I did when I purchased this tractor was to purchase an operators manual and extensively review the parts manual for my SN. If I read the parts manual correct, it shows a PTO with fan (page 45 in relevant parts manual for my SN, am I reading this wrong?) but I don't know if it was an option. It doesn't seem to be presented as an option in my operators manual either. I believe my tractor had one and it was butchered off. I was talking about hydraulic cooling as I indicated in my post. I don't think I saw the talk about this on the site. Anyhow, thank you for the reply.
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
 

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Manual B-1302 is the one in our Library that covers your posted PIN.

Page 44 shows the pictorial drawing and the fan is depicted as Item 19

However, Page 45 states. 19. C 16616 FAN - cooling (644 & 644BH)

Nowhere on that page is there any mention of a fan for a 646.

So.....were you reading the manual WRONG? :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh:

Hilda wants to know. :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Tom:Yes, I was looking at the description, but I missed the notation. But don't tell Hilda because she might tell Helga and we had had a good time at Happy Hour last night.
I'll try to get in there again tomorrow and get a measurement. It is very tight. I was able to see Borg Warner on the pump.
I socked the loose breather in with locktite today and will run tomorrow to see if it holds.
Parts Manual B-1302 is what I have been using for my tractor.
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It was really tight in there. The measurement I got bolt to bolt on the hydraulic pump was 4 1/2". I also pulled these numbers off the pump: S15S5 H22R with 02014 below the first set of numbers.

Here is a picture of the Borg Warner pump.


It appears that the breather is in pretty solid now with the locktite. But now the engine will only idle. But on Boomer's advice I will be getting rid of the carburetor vent assembly (square box thing) that is now connected to the manifold and vent from carb. another way. My understanding is that the carburetor vent assembly should have been be connected to the carburetor. See where the duct tape is. When I get the air filter housing from Boomers friend I will switch things around.


Here is the vacuum fuel pump that was bouncing around into the cooling fins of the engine :facepalm:



:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
 

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Rich,
Case used Cessna, Borg Warner, Parker Hannifin along with several other makes of pump in their machines. Your pump is an A-style. Grainger's will sell you a 4F667 pump for less than $220.00. It's an A-pump but it has a 3/4" shaft. Your pump may not be that large. You won't know until you remove it. Other than that, the 4F667 meets the required specs and other owners have used this pump in the past without complaint. Even if you ordered a new pump from Case or Ingersoll, it is doubtful that they would supply an exact match to what you have and the price would be more than double.
 

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InTroubleAlltheTime said:
Hydriv said:
Here is where I begin to bytch slap you. :sidelaugh:
As the very person who suggests to Newbies that they check out our extensive Library of FAQ's and manuals, why have YOU not consulted the Library for the correct Parts Manual for your loader? Seems to me, the manual clearly show that the 646's do not have the plastic fan but the 644's do. And there was also a recent discussion on that very issue.
But FYI..the plastic or metal fans have nothing to do with engine cooling. They are there for hydraulic cooling.
Tom: EP-EM I HAVE CONSULTED THE LIBRARY. The first thing I did when I purchased this tractor was to purchase an operators manual and extensively review the parts manual for my SN. If I read the parts manual correct, it shows a PTO with fan (page 45 in relevant parts manual for my SN, am I reading this wrong?) but I don't know if it was an option. It doesn't seem to be presented as an option in my operators manual either. I believe my tractor had one and it was butchered off. I was talking about hydraulic cooling as I indicated in my post. I don't think I saw the talk about this on the site. Anyhow, thank you for the reply.
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
The previous discussion was about mine, I also got confused by the book but soon realized they didn't have a fan, they just won't fit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hydriv said:
Rich,
Case used Cessna, Borg Warner, Parker Hannifin along with several other makes of pump in their machines. Your pump is an A-style. Even if you ordered a new pump from Case or Ingersoll, it is doubtful that they would supply an exact match to what you have and the price would be more than double.
OK Thank you Tom for researching that for me, much appreciated. :thumbsup: I will be moving some things around to get the loader in the garage to set up a nice work area to take the pump off. Looks like it will be "fun". For now the goal is to get this machine working right. Long term I want to break the whole thing down and go over over everything as you recommended. So much to do to get things correct on this machine. :facepalm:
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I got the tractor set up in the garage. I am going to pull the pump in the next couple of days. Its very tight in there where the pump is located, especially for me with my big hands. Got underneath and started cleaning up, especially where hydraulic lines will be removed. I have the hard line to the pump, suction line (no brainer) and another long hard line in front of the pump (looks fun :wtf: ) with many turns which goes to the valve below. I see some points where I may get access to the bolts holding the pump. Assuming I loosen the Allen key in the love joy and then the shaft slides out. If anyone that has taken one of these out of a loader that cares to share any tips that would be much appreciated.
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
 

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You do not need to loosen the Allen screws on the LoveJoy. It will part where the spider is...no problem. Just remove the IN and Out lines from the pump and undo the two bolts that hold the pump to the pump support. That's it. The rest involves finding a path to remove the loose pump from that area.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Very difficult working in there. I took the battery tray out for better access. I am certain someone tried to take this pump out and failed. The lower bolt holding the pump is partially stripped and won't budge, and guess what I found, the socket in gunk that did it in the frame. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: I am trying to work it out bracket and all. Lift valve is in way. Wish me luck. Hope I don't fail too.
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·


Tom: I hope you are proud of little weedhopper, it took 5 hours but I got it out!!!!!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:



Here is the son of a bitch :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:



Work area increased by removal of battery tray.



This suction fitting wouldn't budge. Removal would have helped providing more clearance to get the pump out. Also to access the bolt holding the pump on better. I can't budge it in vise either with my giant adjustable.



Recorded info for later reference.



Love joy is to left.

Buna looked fine.

Data:pump: 5/8" shaft, 1" long, +-1/4" keyway. Bolt to bolt 4 1/8"
Love joy AL-110 5/8" 2 1/16" thick 3 1/4" diameter.

Questions: Can I replace the hard lines with hydraulic hose?
Is there a method to match diameter?
Pump should be clockwise rotation correct?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Maynard lets get Hilda and Helga and hit the bar, I need some 151 Bacardi after this episode!!!!!!!! :canada: :usa: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh:

:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
 

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The 4F667 pump from Grainger's is supposed to be correct in every aspect. Check the specs and compare them to your pump.


An impact wrench and socket should take care of that inlet fitting.



Rich..... I'm proud of you, man.... I knew you could do it if you put your mind to it.



All you had to do was to find your mind first. :sidelaugh: J K. :thumbsup:
 

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It seems to be nice. I need to beef up my bench before I mount it anywhere. My father in law left it on the floor of my shop with a bow around it. :cool:


My wife and I are house shopping so I might not even mount it at all for awhile.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hydriv said:
The 4F667 pump from Grainger's is supposed to be correct in every aspect. Check the specs and compare them to your pump.
An impact wrench and socket should take care of that inlet fitting.
Rich..... I'm proud of you, man.... I knew you could do it if you put your mind to it.
All you had to do was to find your mind first. :sidelaugh: J K. :thumbsup:
OK Thanks Tom.
When I posted I noticed an arrow in the pic on the old pump. I went out and its clockwise and the pump you identified states right rotation. I need to get a Love Joy with a larger diameter shaft opening.
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
 

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Just check with Grainger's about their "Right and Left" designations compared to Clockwise/Counterclockwise that most of the others use.

Also check with Surplus Center to see if they have a pump with the same specs as the one from Grainger but for a better price. It's a phone call and it could save you $40.00 .
 
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