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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am also having issues with the hydro on my 444. I think the pump is weak, I took my gps and going on flat groud it runs 8.0 to 8.5 mph but when I hit a decent sized hill it drops to 4 and if I stop on a steep hill in high range it will not move and eventually kills the motor in about 14 to 20 seconds, does this Sound like a weak pump? In low range I have a full range of controll but in high range unless the lever in in the full forward position the tractor does not move, what causes this?
 

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The very first thing you need to do is this. Change the hydraulic oil. Please......go to the FAQ's section here and look for the documents that talk about oil choice and another one that tells you how to change the oil in your tractor.

Fresh... CORRECT oil is the very first step in diagnosing what is wrong with your hydraulic system. If you do that and test the tractor again, then report your findings in this thread and we will pick up where we left off. Please feel free to ask any other questions that come to mind after you read those FAQ's. :thumbsup:
 

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I would say that if your're able to kill the engine, then the pump and drive motor are most likely ok. Keep in mind that high range is for getting from point A to point B as fast as possible, low range is for working, pulling heavy loads, and climbing steep grades. You could check for excess play in the linkages, other wise I think your tractor is preforming normally.


ByCo
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Going up a regular hill the speed drops from 8.5 to 4 with no noticeable extra load on the engine (in high range). So do you think that excess play in the linkage could cause the control lever not to move the tractor unless in full forward (in high range)?
 

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Ingersoll Dealer
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Loss of speed under load (climbing a hill ...) is a common symptom of the travel spool not fully moving in the bore. Often times forward might perform poorly, but reverse works just fine (or vice versa ...).

This can be caused by loose/worn linkages, or misadjustment at the ball joint by the spool.

Basically ,the spool is open a bit and as the load increases, the oil takes the path of least resistance.

That's the optimistic possibility .. all easy to fix. A similar result can happen with poor pump performance and insufficient pressure build up ...

Brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I have a 81 222 parts tractor that was barley used before the engine rod broke, all mechanical parts are in prefect shape, would the pumps swap out? What is the proper procedure for adjusting the ball joint?
 

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All my tractors in high range 646 4016 448 has to have clean main jet and air filter I would get engine problem over heating solved first and linkage repaired so have travel lever not moving way up before moves. Side problems be solved.
 

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You have just received sage advice from two very knowledgeable members of this forum.

I suggest that you remove the deck from your tractor, remove the key from the ignition, slide under the tractor with a trouble light and observe the motion of the SPOOL that moves in and out of the travel valve while a helper is operating it. A seemingly minor amount of free play in the linkage can represent a major loss in the movement of the spool in the valve. Keep in mind that the spool moves only a short distance from full-out to full-in and Forward, Neutral and Reverse are all contained in that short amount of movement. It is not difficult for you to push or pull on the actual spool to see if there is remaining movement available once the travel lever has been moved fully in each direction.

As Brian noted, that little linkage ball is often a major contributor and it acts as a universal joint in the linkage. Another spot is the travel levers bracket that is welded to the travel lever. Check the hole in that bracket and the rod that goes into that hole. Free play in the bushing that the travel lever fits into at the bottom and excess play in the nylon bushing in the dash where the lever resides are other issues. All of these items wear a little bit over time but the COMBINED wear of all these items is what culminates in the problem you describe.
 

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ljones said:
I have a 81 222 parts tractor that was barley used before the engine rod broke, all mechanical parts are in prefect shape, would the pumps swap out? What is the proper procedure for adjusting the ball joint?
The ball joint itself does not adjust. If the ball end is sloppy in the socket it fits into, it is possible to tap it with a hammer and close it up to remove the slop but a new joint is the ideal solution.

As for the pump issue, the pumps should be identical but how about checking out all these other issues first. Perhaps there is nothing all that wrong with the existing pump.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I took some pics of my linkage today, does everything look right? The ball joint is pretty slopy, were can I get a new one?
Top is full forward, middel is neutral, and last is full reverse.


 

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Everything looks normal. You have an oil leak that is causing dirt to stick everywhere. At some point, you should spray degreaser on the underside, let it sit for awhile and then power -wash the area clean. You should be able to locate the leak then and cure it.

If you go to the FAQ's section here, you will find a file called "Ingersoll Dealers". Contact Brian Hildreth for that joint. If you call him now, he may be able to get it into the mail for you today.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The oil leak is not bad enough to drip on the ground yet, you should see the inside of the dash tower grass/oil buildup is everywhere, it has not been cleaned in a long time.

Hydrive, thanks you have been very helpful.
 

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Hmmm...seems like the last two threads regarding this type of issue ended up with pictures of this valve with pretty bad leaks and covered in crud. My tractor was rode hard and put away wet when when I got it but all the valve controls and steering were tight. The TCV was dirty but 'dry'.
 

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ljones said:
Where do I find that?
That is something you do AFTER you have made sure that you are using the correct oil, that there is no free play in the linkage and after your run pressure tests on your hydraulic system. When you are positive that you have your linkage issues resolved and that the spool is moving all the way in and out and you are still having problems, then it's time for you to invest in a test gauge set-up. Let me know when you are done with the linkage and we will talk about the gauge.
 
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