Case Colt Ingersoll Tractors banner
1 - 20 of 54 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just put the deck on my Ingersoll 446 for the first time. I bought the tractor last fall with the deck on it, running perfectly and cutting grass. I removed the deck to install my plow, and just put the deck on the tractor for the first time. The mule drive assembly just doesn't seem right. The lower slots on the mule frame don't want to sit down on the pins all the way, and the blades will not stay engaged.

What am I missing ? Any ideas ?

Thanks.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,618 Posts
It sounds like two problems, not one.


You need to go to the Tech Library - Service Manuals - PTO Clutch section and review the EZ-Adjust clutch manual. More than likely, all you need is to learn how to perform a proper clutch adjustment. If done properly, your clutch will lock in solidly when you push the engagement lever fully forward.

The other problem seems to be a bent mule bracket that is refusing to line up properly. You may have warped it last year. Once you removed it from the Snap Fast pins, it twisted slightly. Just a guess. If you were able to put the mule that belongs to your plow onto the front mount with no problems, then logic points to some sort of damage to the mower deck mule.
 

·
Site Founder
Joined
·
3,600 Posts
Listen to Tom. Your clutch most likely just needs a little adjustment. It's pretty straight forward once you do it once.


When I remove my deck I remove the mule separately from the deck itself. IMO it makes it easier to put the deck on and you also get used to adjusting your belt to the proper tension.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I notice that there is a crack in the mule bracket, it had been previously welded and it's cracked at the weld. Not sure if that would have anything to do with it, but possible.

Am I reading the adjustment properly ? Seems to be a lot to adjust ?? I'm plenty capable, it just seems like alot.........
 

·
Site Founder
Joined
·
3,600 Posts
It's not that much.

Remove the hood.

Remove the 3 screws that hold on the oil cooler to the front of the tractor and move the oil cooler to the side.

Loosen the nut on the end of the clutch.

Adjust the clutch by turning the large adjustment nut a couple turns.

Re-assemble.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks Snot, I appreciate the simplification. I'm taking the mule off tonite, cleaning up the amateur welds and repairing it correctly, then I'll see if I can get the adjustments made tomorrow. I need to be able to mow since my POS 2009 Husqvarna keeps throwing the drive belt. First and last time I'll ever buy anything like it. Any mower thats less than 3 grand new is absolutely not worth having.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,618 Posts
Take the mule plate off the deck harness completely. Then after grinding off the old welds, test fit the mule onto the tractor. Do whatever you have to do in order to pull the mule bracket back into proper alignment so that it mounts onto the tractor very easily. Engage the Snap Fast pins. When you are happy with how it fits, then tack weld it.....test fit it again before making the final welds on the outside. Then test fit it again before welding it inside.


A properly adjusted clutch will allow the belt pulley to free-wheel with no drag on the clutch disc. You will also have to constantly increase the amount of force on the PTO lever as you push it forward until it reaches the sweet spot where it sort of snaps into the fully engaged position. Snot makes it sound simple... and it is simple once you have done it often enough to have mastered it. This is not a five minute learning curve by any means. What can frustrate you even more is if there are badly worn components that either interfere with or totally prevent you from making a proper clutch adjustment that LASTS for more than 5 minutes. A badly grooved main shaft is the major impediment to getting an accurate clutch adjustment.

If it takes almost no pressure to push your clutch lever forward all the way, then your clutch is definitely out of adjustment. Take your time and keep reading the manual. Having a torque wrench is an excellent idea. If you do not prevent the engine from rotating during the clutch tightening procedure, you will not get a proper adjustment.

Get your deck issue repaired and re-mount the deck so that you can test the clutch before you put the cooler back into place along with any exhaust shielding. Just make sure you TIE the cooler back so it cannot come in contact with the fan.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I think the faulty clutch engagement was simply a result of my instinctual caution......... I took the hood off to start the process, and as a force of habit started lubricating any moving parts. After spraying the connection of the rod and Y bracket coming off the clutch, I worked the PTO lever back and forth a few times to get the lube worked all the way around the plastic bushing. As I was doing this, the lever locked forward......... I think I was just not applying enough pressure to get it to "lock" forward, I don't think I ever had it fully engaged. There is definetly a cam feeling, it sort of rocks over a certain spot and then locks in place.

Next question: is the lever on a shaft with a greasable bushing or something similar ? I was out there in the dark with a flashlight and decided it was time to come inside without looking up in there any further.

I still can't understand why the mule drive won't settle down on the lower pins competely. It dry fits just fine, when it's all bolted and pinned together, it's as if the deck is pushing it forward, causing it to slide up off the pins somewhat. If I push back on the front of the mule drive, it sits back down on those pins. I don't think it's possible to re-assemble these pieces incorrectly however. I'll keep working with it, maybe there is something I am missing that is causing it to be in a bind or something similar.

Thanks for the input Tom and Snot, greatly appreciated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,383 Posts
Tom - how deep of a groove is 'really bad'. Mine looks to have had a bad pulley bearing at one time and without measuring I'd guess 0.010" or 0.015". Is the main problem just keeping the gap consistent while measuring?

Thought I'd just use some emery paper to smooth it out (it really doesnt feel that bad) and hoping she'll at least work OK doing that.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,618 Posts
Rockdog said:
Tom - how deep of a groove is 'really bad'. Mine looks to have had a bad pulley bearing at one time and without measuring I'd guess 0.010" or 0.015". Is the main problem just keeping the gap consistent while measuring?

Thought I'd just use some emery paper to smooth it out (it really doesnt feel that bad) and hoping she'll at least work OK doing that.
When the clutch is new, the main shaft is dead smooth. It is finished to a size that will allow the bearings to slide on it and not bind for any reason. If one or more bearings become difficult to spin, then they will spin on the main shaft and cause it to groove. When the grooves get deep enough, a ridge is formed that can be felt with your fingernail. I don't have a specific depth of grooving to tell you that I can say definitely causes problems with getting clutch adjustments that will hold. It's one of those things that just show up when you are trying to obtain an adjustment but you can't. The clutch ends up being too loose or too tight because the bearing is hanging up on these ridges when you are trying to perform the adjustment. Sometimes you get lucky and get the clutch adjusted OK in spite of the grooving and other times you don't.

Yes, you can smooth the shaft out a bit to try and alleviate the problem but you are increasing the clearance between the shaft and the bearing when you do that and making it easier for the shaft to spin inside the bearing's inner race and groove the shaft even more. Some owners that have a lathe have turned the shaft down and then interference fit a piece of tubing over the shaft before turning that down to the correct diameter. That's the only way I know of to save the main shaft but if the price keeps rising, then this procedure is going to become more common.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,618 Posts
screamineagle66 said:
I think the faulty clutch engagement was simply a result of my instinctual caution......... I took the hood off to start the process, and as a force of habit started lubricating any moving parts. After spraying the connection of the rod and Y bracket coming off the clutch, I worked the PTO lever back and forth a few times to get the lube worked all the way around the plastic bushing. As I was doing this, the lever locked forward......... I think I was just not applying enough pressure to get it to "lock" forward, I don't think I ever had it fully engaged. There is definetly a cam feeling, it sort of rocks over a certain spot and then locks in place.

Time will tell if the above is true or not. Repair the deck problem and then try out the clutch under mowing conditions.

Next question: is the lever on a shaft with a greasable bushing or something similar ? I was out there in the dark with a flashlight and decided it was time to come inside without looking up in there any further.

No part of the clutch or clutch actuation system has a grease fitting on it.

I still can't understand why the mule drive won't settle down on the lower pins completely. It dry fits just fine, when it's all bolted and pinned together, it's as if the deck is pushing it forward, causing it to slide up off the pins somewhat. If I push back on the front of the mule drive, it sits back down on those pins. I don't think it's possible to re-assemble these pieces incorrectly however. I'll keep working with it, maybe there is something I am missing that is causing it to be in a bind or something similar.

Thanks for the input Tom and Snot, greatly appreciated.
We have several parts manuals and operator manuals for the decks in the Tech Library. These are what allow you to make a comparison between what you have and what should be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
While in the clutch area to make sure it is in spec, I noticed the adjusting nut was just loose. It was a good eighth inch from the bearing assembly. I notice that the washer between the nut and bearing assembly is no longer perfectly round and it doesn't take up the space between the nut and the bearing assembly.

I'm assuming this is supposed to be tight, and flush ? When I run the nut all the way down, the washer still moves freely, it will not tighten down.

What is the sequence here ? Should that be tight ? I'm assuming this has impact on whether or not the clutch works properly.

Additionally, before I did anything today and after realizing last night there was simply more travel in the lever than I realized, I find that when I do engage the lever fully - the tractor dies. The lever arm stays in place where it is supposed to be, but the engagement of the lever kills the engine.

Thanks again guys.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The belt is on, how would you test it with the belt off ?

Now that I understand the travel in the lever, it's a different issue. When the lever is fully engaged, it kills the engine. I'm working on adjusting the clutch clearance right now. Is this the issue ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,383 Posts
Well, I guess if the engine lugs down to a stall then something wont allow the crank to turn. That tell me there is enough drag in your clutch lug your engine to a stall. If the outer adjusting nut guide is not touching the forward cam via the flat spacer/washer when engaged (you said the washer is loose and/or the nut guid does not touch forward cam bearing) then the belleville springs arent putting through the cams. My guess is then the load on the clutch friction disc is coming from someplace else. The only two things left that could react against the crankshaft are the implement belt or the clutch engagement arm/fork.

Can you move the forward cam forward against the large flat washer/spacer? In other words is the bearing free from the shaft?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,383 Posts
I'm not sure about your clutch clearance because I havent been able to understand what is going on in your previous descriptions. If your deck is locked up somewhere the engine will lug down. If your cams bearings are really bad your clutch engagement fork/arm will be taking torque and lugging the engine down (dont know if that could stall the engine without bending the rod below though).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Sorry for the rough descriptions, this is my first Case and first time into this part of the tractor. Feeling my way through........

The deck bearings are all fine, the PTO lever engages the blades until about halfway through the travel of the lever, then it kills the engine. It has the feel of being at the top of a cam lobe so to speak, it gets stiffer until about halfway through, then gets easier - but from the halfway position on it kills the engine.

I took all of the parts off down to the spring washers, cleaned and lubricated all parts and reassembled. The shaft has no ridges or other issues, and when reassembled the disc will travel as its supposed to with the spring washers pushing it back. Clearance on the disc is about .006.

On top of the cam and bearing assemblies, above the engaging arm that connects via a rod to the lever, there are two bolt and jam nuts. There is a bracket with what look like mini brake pads that contact the front of the disc, the side to the front of the tractor. They are slotted for adjustment, but they are not shown in the manual for easy clutch adjustment.

Does anyone know what the proper adjustment of these should be ? And would it relate to the engine killing ?

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Reaching over the tractor and engaging the lever, I see what makes the "cam lobe" feeling in the travel of the lever - its just the engaging arm moving in the slots of the cam and bearing assemblies. Something is this motion is killing the engine..........

The gap seems to be correct however.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
877 Posts
Did you put a new belt on? If so is it the correct one? Is the belt tensioned properly? Can you see the belt around the pulley while you engage the clutch? If not get a friend to engage it while you watch, the belt may be wrapping up into the pulley if too loose. This will lock it up tighter than what Fort Knox used to be. Have you actually spun the drive pulley on the deck or are you assuming they are ok because it cut grass last year? The belt for the spindles may be stuck to the pulleys from sitting. This happened to one of mine this year, my fault though. I didn't exercise it at all this past winter. I get all locked up if I sit too long too! :sidelaugh:
 
1 - 20 of 54 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top