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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Finally got around to putting 448 back together after "lost valve keeper incident" mentioned month+ ago. Everything is fine EXCEPT travel lever wants to creep back. Replaced travel lever detent at dash and toyed with notching it out deeper at full travel setting before installing, but didn't. Any ideas? Thinking of putting a light spring somewhere in linkage. Could control valve be cracked causing back press to move spool? I DO NOT WANT TO REMOVE HYD RESERVOIR AGAIN, worst part of whole job. tanks, john
 

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If you bought a brand new Neutral Safety switch (NSS) and installed it, then that is not the problem.

The problem MIGHT be the amount of tension the spring at the bottom of the control lever is exerting on the lever rod that presses up against the NSS.

Another problem MIGHT be that the lever rod is worn flat where it contacts the NSS.

Another problem MIGHT be a sloppy or missing plastic bushing in the dash where the travel lever goes through.

Another problem MIGHT be that your tractor was fitted with a travel/lift valve that has a spring loaded device residing under the "HAT" or "DUNCE CAP" on the back side of the spool. Case issued a bulletin telling dealers to remove the cap and pull the spring out with pliers. In other words, there should be no spring on that spool extension rod.


Any or all of the above combined can cause the problem you have.


Keep in mind that your tractor worked perfectly when it left the factory. This is not about modifying OEM parts to fix the problem but rather a journey to discover which OEM parts need to be replaced to bring the tractor back to what it was. :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Bob MacGregor said:
Are all the detent balls(2) and springs(2) installed in the detent housing on the back of the travel control valve on the travel side?
Bob MacGregor in CT :mrgreen: :mowlawn:
My control valve doesn't have detent U are referring to? Tr serial# 14028506 tanks, john
 

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dwag said:
Tanks for reply's, everything looks good on travel linkage. Spring U are referring to (Hydrive) is part# C26382 under cap C18847, manual# 8-1242?
I have manual 8-1242 in our Tech Library opened to page 40. That page depicts the travel lever.

The bushing I referred to is ITEM 2 - part #C-27593

The spring is ITEM 4 part #C-27822

There is also ITEM 5 part #C-21518 which is a nylon washer that the spring seats on.

According to Page 48, the travel/lift valve in your tractor some models do not have TWO dunce caps on the ends of the spools, just one. Therefore, there is no spring to be removed in this area if your valve has one one dunce cap. However, later models did have the twin dunce caps on the valve and if your valve has two, then there should not be any return spring C26382 under that cap.
 

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Hydriv said:
If you bought a brand new Neutral Safety switch (NSS) and installed it, then that is not the problem.
The problem MIGHT be the amount of tension the spring at the bottom of the control lever is exerting on the lever rod that presses up against the NSS.
Another problem MIGHT be that the lever rod is worn flat where it contacts the NSS.
Another problem MIGHT be a sloppy or missing plastic bushing in the dash where the travel lever goes through.
Another problem MIGHT be that your tractor was fitted with a travel/lift valve that has a spring loaded device residing under the "HAT" or "DUNCE CAP" on the back side of the spool. Case issued a bulletin telling dealers to remove the cap and pull the spring out with pliers. In other words, there should be no spring on that spool extension rod.
Any or all of the above combined can cause the problem you have.
Keep in mind that your tractor worked perfectly when it left the factory. This is not about modifying OEM parts to fix the problem but rather a journey to discover which OEM parts need to be replaced to bring the tractor back to what it was. :thumbsup:
I am having a problem similar to Dwag. My 446 S# 14025418. When the tractor is in forward the lever will not stay put. If I move the lever to a neutral there is a distinct "notch". To move in to reverse I find it smoother to pull down on the lever as I pull it back. The lever will stay put in reverse. I don't have two dunce caps on the tcv.
If I need to inspect the NSS the majority of the task is getting to it. Although I haven't priced it seems logical to have it on hand and replace it as well as the bushings and spring.

If the lever rod is worn to the point that it needs to be replaced it appears the task has grow exponentially. What is involved in removing the lever?
 

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As stated earlier, the pump and engine are really in the way, so either remove both, sepzrate the pump from and pull the engine, or get creative.

I've been known to cut the shaft, remove in two pieces and reinstall using a set screw coupler. That's lots faster.
 

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The way I have seen the travel side of spools is three different main ways....

1. Completely open on the far end with the spool visibly protruding out the back.

2. A "Top Hat". This one sticks out about 3/4" and is flat on top. Its this one that generally has a spring in it to help with self centering. And, its interesting how it accomplishes that because at first look, you'd think it would only push one way.

3. The tall, peaked "dunce cap" with two machine screws turned in from opposing sides (looks just like the one for the lift spool). I've seen a few variations under these caps. Essentially, the designers screwed an additional extended shaft to the main spool. Under the two screws found on each side of the cap are two little springs that push on two ball bearings. The ball bearings DRAG on this extension.

The style of this extension is what made it operate differently. I have seen extensions that had two different diameters to them as if their intentions were to make it a little more difficult to pull the handle into reverse.

I've seen straight, single diameter extensions that looked like the intentions where to let the opposing ball bearings simply add some DRAG to the spool, perhaps to help it from falling back to neutral.

Finally, I have seen extensions with 5 spots turned smaller in diameter.... one in the middle and two towards each end. It would appear that the designers intentions here were to simply provide two rigid speeds in each direction. This particular style makes a very nice aux PTO if you want something with two speeds in each direction.

I have no idea as to the years involved of when they did what, but it is CLEAR that it was always a little bit of an issue that they kept adjusting for.

Along the lines of hydrives pinpointed areas of issue, I agree. I've found that the pin that DRAGS on the mini notches of the neutral block end up "oval" shaped on older tractors. In that you say your tractor stays in reverse fine, and if you do not have any dunce cap or top hats to worry about, I'd say crawl underneath and add a little tension spring somewhere to compensate. You can ALWAYS go back in 20 years and fix it on the next restoration.
 

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Thank you all for the input. I will have to get under the tractor and look at the tcv more carefully. If I disconnect the linkage from the travel control lever it would seem that I should be able to move the spool manually and feel any detents that are built into the valve. If there are none that narrows the scope.
 

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Mine does this also ('72 444) and is due to wear of everything. It is fine as far as neutral detent but does tend to bounce down when traveling uphill on bumpy terrain. I've notices the NSS is worn, the 'arm' on the lever is worn, the washer and spring at the bottom are worn. All said an done when the tractor is off and I move the TCL to full forward the arm under the NSS doesnt even touch! I'd take a look down at the bottom and make sure the washer and spring are there and in good condition and see if you need to snug it up down there.
 

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I disconnected the linkage from the tcv to the spool and found no detents in the valve. I don't want to undertake the job of fixing things "right" at this time. The washer and spring at the bottom are worn so there is quite a bit of slop. While looking things over I came up with a quick fix to return greater control and buy some time.

[


I purchased all of the parts at Sears Paint and Hardware. I removed the roll pin that serves as a pointer. The collar with the set screw is 1/2" but would not make it around the bend in the travel control lever hence the hose clamp in the picture. I adjusted the amount of tension I placed on the spring and found that very little is required to feel the ridges on the nss when the lever is moved. With only slight pressure the lever stays put. From under the tractor it is easy to move the bottom of the rod with the spring and bushing about an 1/8" of an inch.

Now for another question. It appears to me that after removing the oil tank the linkage connecting the travel control lever to the spool needs to be disconnected and the nss needs to be removed to create room to move the travel control rod up and allow clearance at the bottom to remove the spring and washer. Am I on the right track or can that be accomplished by compressing the spring and swinging the shaft free of its seat there by avoiding removal of the oil tank?
 

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Sounds to me like you are on the right track. Mine is an older front mounted tank vehicle and what I found was that with the steering wheel off I could remove the bolts for the lower steering gear/lever support (machined casting) and it would drop down quite a bit. Seeings how you have an origianl case steering wheel - apparently they are difficult to remove without breaking them - maybe thats not the best move for you.
 

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oldrndirt said:
Now for another question. It appears to me that after removing the oil tank the linkage connecting the travel control lever to the spool needs to be disconnected and the nss needs to be removed to create room to move the travel control rod up and allow clearance at the bottom to remove the spring and washer. Am I on the right track or can that be accomplished by compressing the spring and swinging the shaft free of its seat there by avoiding removal of the oil tank?
If you simply find a way to move that bottom bushing up against the spring tension high enough to clear the steering gear assembly, the shaft swings forward and out the slot. Thats when your pry bar slips off and the spring and bushing go flying under a bench somewhere, never to be found again.

The NSS or the pin that rides on it, does not have to be messed with. However, you cant take the whole handle completely out of the tractor at all, unless you indeed remove the oil tank, pump and engine, but also the pto engagement lever. With all that removed the handle has to be slid down and around that top curve of the handle.

When I do have one out, and am trying to maintain stock operation, I always file out the flattened top of the pin so it has a little more peak to it.

I like your temporary repair. Its a no brainer that could solve a lot of fellows problems without major work. If you want something smoother looking than that hose clamp, order a split or folding shaft collar from Mcmaster next time you order.
 

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oldrndirt said:
I agree the split collar would look better. The hose clamp is a bit tacky.
The whole repair "looks" tacky. LOL :wink:
but it temporarily fixed the problem. :thumbup:

Your situation seems slightly different than mine, but I found on my 446 the rod that slides on the neutral safety switch was bent down some and road on it from the side edge and not flat against it causing it to creep back. I bent this up to slide flat on the Neutral Safety Switch and it works perfectly. also by bending that rod/tab up it placed more tension on the bottom spring. (I did replace the switch since it was for a restoration I was doing on it.) :thumbsup:
Good luck with it!
 
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