The correct PTO for a 600 series was hard lined and mounted on the right fender. Is the one you have a PTO for a 600 series or for a 200/400 series? You'll also need either a sleeve hitch or a F-27 sleeve adapter mounted on a 3 point to pick the tiller up.

 

http://eastmanind.com.mytempweb.com/Lin ... &tabid=196

Go to page 74-75 :thumbsup:

 

I have a PTO and a sleeve hitch from a 224. The PTO attaches behind the seat with the fender bolts. I think I can make it work, but I might have to use hose instead of hard line. I was going to remove the 3 point to use the sleeve hitch, but I like the three point adapter idea better. I'll get the tiller working first and then look for an adapter or maybe find a picture and see if I can make one. Thank you for the help. I'll let you know how it works out.

 

This link take you to plan section in library for Sleeve hitch adapter.

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=9612

 

Thank you. I will have to try to make that (or have it made) after I get the tiller working.

 

I got the tiller installed and working, but this just made the power loss problem more obvious. After I used it for awhile I noticed the tiller would slow down when the tractor moved and speed up when it stopped. Last year, following the directions I found here, I did a complete oil change and filled it with Rotela 15w40. I did the pressure test with a gauge on the travel control valve. I can't remember the numbers but they were very low so I installed a new pump. This helped some. I could at least drive it around the yard, but as soon as it got warmed up, it was done. As far as I can tell I have full travel with the travel control spool. I over adjusted it both ways to make sure. Compared to photos I've seen of worn out banana plates, mine looks almost new. Now that I have a PTO I will connect the gauge to it and try the pressure test again, but I'm thinking it might be the drive motor. Does that sound right?

 

I don't think the drive motor is the culprit. Based on what you described, it sounds like an incorrect oil problem. I know you said you changed the oil to 15w40 last year. BUT...

What kind of oil was in it before that?

How long have you had the machine?

How much have you used it since that fluid change?

When you drained the old oil/fluid, did you make sure to get it all out? Including what was I the cylinders?

Sometimes it takes 2 or 3 changes to get all the wrong oil out, putting hydraulic fluid has got to be the most common mistake/problem with these machines, and when warmed up gets worse because the oil gets even thinner. The hydraulic oil just isn't thick enough to do the job. Its also not too common for the drive motors to go. Id do another change, making sure to get all of it out, of everywhere. The only way to do this, unfortunately is to disconnect the cylinders, and force the fluid out manually. To aid you in draining the system, you should be removing the spark plugs, grounding them to the block, and turning the key to crank the engine. This will turn that slow dribble into a gusher, which is what you want, to FORCE it all out. Once that's done, refill the system with 15w40 again. I think you will find this to be very helpful. Especially if hydraulic fluid was used previously, before your last change. Id try this before buying any new parts. :thumbsup:

 

Second that. Believe it or not, a dealership put hydraulic fluid in my 4020 system after doing a repair. I've had the hydro fluid changed twice since then and there was still contaminated oil coming out when I drained it a third time for another repair. Make sure you spin the engine over until you get all the fluid out. When you refill it I would go with a heavier weight, 20-50 and see if it improves.

I think it is possible that the drive motor is the culprit, but I wonder if you checked out the status of your lovejoy coupler when you replaced the pump? I believe it is possible that a worn out lovejoy coupler could cause these symptoms. Someone else may have a better guess.

 

I rolled the engine over to pump the oil out of the drain in the travel control valve. I also removed and pumped the oil out of all the cylinders including the 3 point and the attachment lift, and I disconnected all the hoses and hard lines and blew air through them. I think it did have hydraulic oil in it. This tractor was my uncle's. I ended up with it after he passed away. When I went to help clean the garage after I picked up the tractor, there were several hydraulic oil jugs in the corner. My cousin said that she had to take the truck out back and tow him in several times because it had quit moving. I will have to get a couple more bags of "Floor-dry" and change it again. :facepalm:
In the mid 80's I worked for a Case-Ingersoll dealer and we were always told to use 15w40 up here in Northern Michigan. Is there a reason to use something different, or is that still O.K. ?

 

15-40 is great. I recommended heavier oil because it will function better in hot temperatures. You said that once your tractor warmed up it slowed down. The heavier oil will help with that but eventually you have to repair the underlying problem that is causing this.

 

Do you ever hear the relief valve going off, check to see what the relief is set at, if not high enough, it could cause issues with drive, and with the tiller, on a loader tractor it was set higher, but not sure when they changed it, might be the 6000 and not 600 series loaders. That would be another thing to make sure is correct, if the relief is opening up, you will loose hyd power, could be a weak relief value, it bypassing it some, causing an issue. Just a thought with the relief valve, but is something to check, to make sure you are getting full hyd PSI to everything.

 

I haven't heard any noises. The power decreases as the tractor temperature rises. It looks like I'm going to have a couple rain days this week, so I will try to get the oil changed again.

 

I did the complete oil change again. It didn't make any difference at all. I connected the pressure gauge to the P.T.O. work port. When I engaged the P.T.O. the pressure spiked to about 2500 psi. then it instantly dropped to about 1500 psi. and then slowly kept dropping until it was well below 1000 psi. I drove it around for awhile to make sure it was warmed up and did the test again with the same results.

 

I did the complete oil change again. It didn't make any difference at all. I connected the pressure gauge to the P.T.O. work port. When I engaged the P.T.O. the pressure spiked to about 2500 psi. then it instantly dropped to about 1500 psi. and then slowly kept dropping until it was well below 1000 psi. I drove it around for awhile to make sure it was warmed up and did the test again with the same results.

You need to check the pressure while really loading the hydraulic system on the tractor. It won't take much pressure at all to simply drive around, though the spike to 2500 is a good sign (but transient conditions don't really tell performance).

Great way to do this is if you have some hard tilling to do ... go at it and watch the pressure. The gauge must be on the inlet side (oil flowing to the tiller) of the tiller, not outlet of the tiller to the tractor. The load of the tiller, together with drive system load can run the pressures up and would be more indicative than drive loading the tractor against a tree.

If you drive system is working well, pushing against a tree (or other stationary object) can also provide peak/near peak loads on the hydraulics. Expect 2000+ psi before relief hits and most will notice the relief squealing.

That said, I don't often encounter greater than 1500-1800 PSI while tilling ...

Brian

 

I connected the gauge as directed in another thread so the oil would deadhead into the gauge,so I can't run the tiller. I'm sure I read what those test results mean but I have been searching threads and can't find it back. The only reason I drove it for awhile was to make sure the oil was warmed up.

 

I did the complete oil change again. It didn't make any difference at all. I connected the pressure gauge to the P.T.O. work port. When I engaged the P.T.O. the pressure spiked to about 2500 psi. then it instantly dropped to about 1500 psi. and then slowly kept dropping until it was well below 1000 psi. I drove it around for awhile to make sure it was warmed up and did the test again with the same results.

This test proves the max pressure the pump and relief can produce, but, says nothing about flow capabilities. My take on the observed pressures:
It hit that 2500 peak before the relief has a chance to open, then dropped to 1500, which is likely the actual relief pressure setting.
Since you had it dead headed, the relief probably stayed open, and the 1000 reading is a function of pump flow through an open relief. Not knowing the flow capacity of the relief circuit, there is no why to determine whether the pump is working OK or not. It would be interesting to know at what pressure the relief would reseat.

What was the engine speed during this test???

As far as oil choices, I live in a hot summer locale, so I use 20w50 diesel rated oil. And, keep the tractors in a closed building in cold weather. 15w40 or 10w30 may be a better choice in colder areas.

 

I had it running at full throttle for the test. The pump is a new Concentric 4F667.

 

I had it running at full throttle for the test. The pump is a new Concentric 4F667.

Have you measured actual RPM at full throttle?

 

I would like to be the first to say that's a damn fine looking machine you have there. Absolutely beautiful.

 

Thank you. I had fun and learned a lot while restoring it. All the information I needed to do the job was found here at CCI. Everything from how to put it all back together, to where to get the decal kit. :thumbsup:

ING6018-I'll check the rpm this week.

 

RPM at full throttle is 3260. I did the deadhead test again. With the oil cold, I engaged the PTO. The pressure held at 2300 psi for about 60 seconds and within 5 minutes at full throttle it dropped to 0 psi. I then installed the gauge in-line to the tiller. While traveling forward, with the tiller engaged the pressure fluctuated between 0 and 500 psi. with an occasional spike to just over 1000 psi. If I stopped travel the psi would drop to 0. It didn't make any difference if the tiller was working in the dirt or not, or if the tiller was running in forward or reverse.

 

I just read the instructions from "bhildret" again and realized I put the gauge on the wrong side. I don't have the fittings to put it on the inlet side so I will have to do that another day.

 

O.K. now the gauge is on the inlet side. :thumbsup: While tilling and traveling forward in low range, at full throttle (3260 rpm) it stays at 1000 psi. When I take my foot off the pedal, it drops to 200 psi. I don't have very heavy soil but when I hit a spot that would make it work harder, it would jump to between 1500 and 2000 psi. After about 30 minutes when it hit the spot that made it work harder the pressure would go back to between 1500 and 2000 psi and the tiller would stop rotating. After that, the tiller would rotate very slowly while traveling forward and would speed up when I took my foot off the pedal. With the bucket against a tree, in low range, it stays at 1500 psi but there is no squeal.

 

You need drive motor good one off 400 series tractor this fix tractor if in forward pulling spool all way out Travel control Valve being you get 1500 every time it probably linkage good.
There only one other way test system thats buy plugs are cap cap off both travel lines going to drive motor.Then test pressure against caps that should give you noise from reliefs.

The tiller slowing as travel faster is common. I got old 1974 446 runs good stall tiller and try drive at same time it kill engine choke down hydraulic fluid warm up good.

You do know that tiling is done at slowest speed you travel forward creep along.

 

Thank you Gator. Yes I was creeping slowly in low range. At first it seemed to work OK, but when the oil got hot, it acted like it didn't have enough power to run both the tiller and drive the tractor at the same time. I already changed the drive motor a week ago. I had one here that was from a 224, so I figured it wouldn't cost me more than a little time and oil to try it. It increased the top speed and lost a little of it's push(which I figured it would) but when the oil got hot it acted the same as it did with the old drive motor in it. When I test with the drive lines capped, do I leave the gauge where it is, on the tiller inlet?