The bearings are quite common and are more of a snug fit than a true press fit. The number should be on the bearing for matching at any bearing supply house.
'72 444 Clutch Question
Took the clutch (old shim-adjust style) off to reassembly and install engagement arm/fork. Need to replace the bearings in the cams (and pulley too). Cams appear to be powdered metal and wondering if these are prone to fracgture when pressing the bearings out. Not a flat surface on non-cam face side and want to be sure I dont split these things in half.
Also, wondering if anyones had luck getting these bearings at a place like Tractor Supply.
Also, wondering if anyones had luck getting these bearings at a place like Tractor Supply.
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
I also noticed I dont have a snap ring that goes between the cam bearings. I dont see anywhere in the manuals that calls out the size snap ring to use and if anyone knows I really appreciate it as I dont want to pull the hub off if I dont have to.
It also came with only 4 wave spring behind the pulley. The manuals show an 'early' clutch that has only four disengagement springs but all the newer ones have six. Am I gonna need to buy a kit of some sort to get a couple of these springs?
The cluth service manual says to replace friction disk if it measure below 1/8" in thickness. But doesnt say if that thickness is to be measured at the OD or when looking at the ID which appears to center on a pilot diameter machined into the pulley. The 'thickness' past this pilot diameter is less than the actual thickness of the friction disc. How thick is a new friction disc?
It also came with only 4 wave spring behind the pulley. The manuals show an 'early' clutch that has only four disengagement springs but all the newer ones have six. Am I gonna need to buy a kit of some sort to get a couple of these springs?
The cluth service manual says to replace friction disk if it measure below 1/8" in thickness. But doesnt say if that thickness is to be measured at the OD or when looking at the ID which appears to center on a pilot diameter machined into the pulley. The 'thickness' past this pilot diameter is less than the actual thickness of the friction disc. How thick is a new friction disc?
The new disks are approximately 3/16" thick.Rockdog said:I also noticed I dont have a snap ring that goes between the cam bearings. I dont see anywhere in the manuals that calls out the size snap ring to use and if anyone knows I really appreciate it as I dont want to pull the hub off if I dont have to.
That snap ring is not essential, I have a clutch that works fine without it.
It also came with only 4 wave spring behind the pulley. The manuals show an 'early' clutch that has only four disengagement springs but all the newer ones have six. Am I gonna need to buy a kit of some sort to get a couple of these springs?
I believe you can purchase those individually from a dealer--not cheap last time I checked. I would follow the manual for your clutch as to how many are required.
The cluth service manual says to replace friction disk if it measure below 1/8" in thickness. But doesnt say if that thickness is to be measured at the OD or when looking at the ID which appears to center on a pilot diameter machined into the pulley. The 'thickness' past this pilot diameter is less than the actual thickness of the friction disc. How thick is a new friction disc?
Rockdog -
Yes, the clutch cams do have a tendency to fracture at the corners of the slot intended for the clutch engagement lever fingers. I have an EZ Adjust style clutch, but assume the cam design to be similar to yours. Try to fully support the periphery of the clutch cam face, so force is evenly distributed before removing the bearings. Not sure aboust TSC, but if you have a Motion Industries (typically where I go) in your area, bearings can be found there.
I measured from the outer edge of the clutch to the pulley surface for clutch thickness. Can't go look at my tractor now, but would guess a new clutch disc to be around 1/4 inch thick.
Yes, the clutch cams do have a tendency to fracture at the corners of the slot intended for the clutch engagement lever fingers. I have an EZ Adjust style clutch, but assume the cam design to be similar to yours. Try to fully support the periphery of the clutch cam face, so force is evenly distributed before removing the bearings. Not sure aboust TSC, but if you have a Motion Industries (typically where I go) in your area, bearings can be found there.
I measured from the outer edge of the clutch to the pulley surface for clutch thickness. Can't go look at my tractor now, but would guess a new clutch disc to be around 1/4 inch thick.
Thanks guys.
Hmmm. Maybe I'll have to contact Brian of Salem Power and see what is available.
Hmmm. Maybe I'll have to contact Brian of Salem Power and see what is available.
Brian will have all of that sitting on his shelving.
Those cams are $40 ea and the new ones are machined not pot metal. Bearings on mine were a 6206 something
Those cams can break, I have a pair that that a previous owner broke and had them repaired by brazing them. Haven't used them but yes they can break.
Kind of nervous about getting the bearings out of early '70s powdered metal. Powdered metal is used in all kinds of parts nowadays but back then they were...much less than ideal. Maybe a piece of pipe with notches for the fork/arm bumpouts as support?
Bart - As Far as leaving the snap ring out from between the cam bearings...I assume this is used to preload the belville springs while leaving the distance between stator plate and front cam face controlled. That way when the cams are engaged and friction disc contacts the stator plate you have a much higher available force then if the bellvilles were not preloaded. Probably never know the difference if it wasnt loading up pretty good. Is my thinking correct here.
Bart - As Far as leaving the snap ring out from between the cam bearings...I assume this is used to preload the belville springs while leaving the distance between stator plate and front cam face controlled. That way when the cams are engaged and friction disc contacts the stator plate you have a much higher available force then if the bellvilles were not preloaded. Probably never know the difference if it wasnt loading up pretty good. Is my thinking correct here.
Hi:
I also have a "Pre 74" 444 Of course I panted it serviced the engine and the deck with new blades. even fixed the lights (thing looks and runs like new) Wouldn't you know it, the PTO hangs up (spins the fork with weak enguagement) I just want to know if anyone can tell me how to disasimble the PTO to get to the clutch. Can anyone help?
I also have a "Pre 74" 444 Of course I panted it serviced the engine and the deck with new blades. even fixed the lights (thing looks and runs like new) Wouldn't you know it, the PTO hangs up (spins the fork with weak enguagement) I just want to know if anyone can tell me how to disasimble the PTO to get to the clutch. Can anyone help?
On this site, we have a Technical Library that is easy to find. Go there, click on the Service Manuals and find the various clutch manuals. Reading those will tell you which clutch model you have and how to service it.archtop said:Hi:
I also have a "Pre 74" 444 Of course I panted it serviced the engine and the deck with new blades. even fixed the lights (thing looks and runs like new) Wouldn't you know it, the PTO hangs up (spins the fork with weak enguagement) I just want to know if anyone can tell me how to disasimble the PTO to get to the clutch. Can anyone help?
I am havint trouble finding that site. Could you help me? Thanks
My friction disc appears to be brand new (still has the orginal lateral sanding markes from original sizing). It pretty much is 1/4"+ thick at the outside diameter. The two flat machine screws which hold the clutch discs in place were damaged on the face of heads apparently due to contact with a rotating pulley face at some point in time.
Brand new machine screw head faces are flush with the engagement face of the clutch disc with no lockwasher in place. With lockwashers in place they are proud a couple of mm and therre appears to be only 2 or 3 mm of clearance between them. Without the lockwashers significantly more. Is this normal?
Brand new machine screw head faces are flush with the engagement face of the clutch disc with no lockwasher in place. With lockwashers in place they are proud a couple of mm and therre appears to be only 2 or 3 mm of clearance between them. Without the lockwashers significantly more. Is this normal?
The heads of the screws should be flush with the clutch plate surface. I seem to recall that some plates were not properly countersunk. I suppose also, that the screws and lockwashers you are using may be of a different manufacture that is causing the assembly to sit proud. I suggest that you use a rosebud and sink them a bit lower.
Crap. Forgot to say the ones that came out of it sat proud too.
This thing is beggin for an electric clutch.
This thing is beggin for an electric clutch.
Don`t do it.. JMO :grin:Rockdog said:This thing is beggin for an electric clutch.
You could not get me to put one of those POS electric clutches on my tractor even if you gave me the conversion parts at no cost.Rockdog said:This thing is beggin for an electric clutch.
Case, and then Ingersoll, used the tried and true mechanical clutch in various forms from 1966 to 1988 when Ingersoll was forced to abandon it.
Try and find replacement parts for an electric clutch. In most instance, that cannot be done because the clutch manufacturer does not offer replacement parts. Most electric clutches are assembled in a way that discourages any form of repair to them.
On the other hand, tractor owners can buy any part they need for the EZ clutch on an individual basis or in small packs when it comes to the shims and washers.
Most of the problems with the EZ clutch are due to ignorance. Owners do not know how to engage the clutch properly nor do they know how to carry out clutch adjustments or when those adjustments are needed,
In the long haul, the EZ clutch is far and away less costly than any electric clutch.
Aside from the argument about electric vs mechanical clutches.............you also have to take a few other things into consideration. Electric clutches draw heavy current when they are engaged. That means less current being available for auxiliary lighting and recharging the battery. As these clutches age, they often draw even more current that causes melting of connectors and damage to switches. And on ultra-rare occasions, they have been known to ruin engines due to searching for ground through the crank stub they are mounted on. This can cause arcing through the thin film of oil that separates the crankshaft from the bearings that spin on it and that arcing results in pitting of the polished bearing areas. This is a fairly uncommon happening but it can take place.
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
- This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Case Colt Ingersoll Tractors
A forum community dedicated to Colt, Case and Ingersoll tractors owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
