[Brad Gyde]

So tonight was the night I decided to start playing with my 120 and as I worked, I cam up with a few things made me scratch my head..

First thing being does anyone know what the front tires were originally? Mine has 4.00/4.80-8 Carlisle "saw tread" on the front. I'm assuming the size is right, but are they the correct tread for the front?

Next question is I need to clean the fuel tank out (and likely patch the hole in the bottom LOL).. what is the least labor intensive way to do so? I've used the diesel fuel and rocks/nuts/bolts trick a time or 3, but it never seems to work out all that great.

Third question would be how deep into the engine should I go? I'm planning on trying to fire it tomorrow (err, today..) I know I'll have to clean the carb and whatnot (likely new points and so on), but say it runs and don't seem to smoke and no abnormal noises.. Should I still open it up and give it some rings and a valve job? I want to do it right, so I'm betting I should, but figured I'd ask for a few opinions.

Thanks in advance (and I'm sure I'll have more to ask tomorrow..)

Brad

 

[Hydriv]

So tonight was the night I decided to start playing with my 120 and as I worked, I cam up with a few things made me scratch my head..

First thing being does anyone know what the front tires were originally? Mine has 4.00/4.80-8 Carlisle "saw tread" on the front. I'm assuming the size is right, but are they the correct tread for the front?

The parts manual is unclear on the issue of tread pattern but the size is shown. Off hand, I'd say that the saw tooth pattern is "period correct" and that's all that matters in a restoration. The factory did not use the exact same tread pattern for all models in a given year. I have two models of 1966 Colts with original tires on them to the best of my knowledge and they are different from one another.

Next question is I need to clean the fuel tank out (and likely patch the hole in the bottom LOL).. what is the least labor intensive way to do so? I've used the diesel fuel and rocks/nuts/bolts trick a time or 3, but it never seems to work out all that great.

You can take the tank to a rad shop and they will boil it clean. However, I don't know if that will remove the rust. Consult the local rad shop. Here are some links on the topic. Read them. They will help you decide on what course of action is best for you.

http://www.motorcycleanchor.com/motorcy ... krust.html

http://www.instructables.com/id/Electro ... le-Gas-Ta/

Third question would be how deep into the engine should I go? I'm planning on trying to fire it tomorrow (err, today..) I know I'll have to clean the carb and whatnot (likely new points and so on), but say it runs and don't seem to smoke and no abnormal noises.. Should I still open it up and give it some rings and a valve job? I want to do it right, so I'm betting I should, but figured I'd ask for a few opinions.

I would begin by removing the spark plug and then rotate the engine by hand for a few full rotations by gripping the PTO clutch. If the engine turns freely with no hard spots, then I would clean and gap the plug before putting it back in. Of course, I would make sure that the engine has oil in the crankcase at an adequate level. With the tractor hooked to booster cables from a car or truck battery, I would see if the starter/generator would spin the engine over. Then, while the engine is spinning, I would give it a short shot of Quick Start into the open carb throat (air filter removed) to see if it will fire once or twice. If no fire, then I would check the points to make sure they were opening and closing, that they were clean and properly gapped. Then I would try the ether test again. I would not worry about doing anything with the carb until I had the ignition issues solved. Once I got the engine to run using ether or an alternative, then I would remove the carb, dismantle it totally and soak it for a couple of days in proper carb cleaner. Wash it in solvent,to remove the carb cleaner, use compressed air to blow out all passage ways, perhaps chase some of those passage ways with fine wire, blow them out again and then put the carb back together.

At that point, I would use the spare gas tank I have to gravity feed fuel into the carb after setting the float level and putting the carb back on the engine. If no flooding occurred, then I would try to start the engine. It should at least run now that the ignition issues have been corrected and some fine tuning of the needle screws may be necessary to smooth it out. It is quite normal for a Kohler to smoke a bit when first started but that should clear up and go away as the engine comes up to temperature. The colour of any continuing smoke is a clue to what's wrong. Black smoke indicates a rich fuel mixture but blue smoke indicates oil being burnt. A leak-down test will tell you a lot about the condition of the rings and valves once you have reached this stage. If the engine runs well, does not smoke badly, makes no nasty noises, then you could stop there if all you intend to do with the tractor is show it. If you intend to parade it, then pulling the head, de-carbonizing the combustion chamber, setting the valve lash etc are all good moves. If the leak-down test does not show any problems with the rings or valves, then leave the engine alone.

Thanks in advance (and I'm sure I'll have more to ask tomorrow..)

Brad

If you have been checking out our Library, then you should know that there are several Kohler manuals in the Service Manual section. Lots of good information there.

 

[Phaon]

Every 120 I have seen with original front tires (including my own), has the sawtooth pattern. If you still have both in resonable shape, you're doing very well - keep them. I second Hydriv (well.... duh :lol: ) on the engine. If it runs good, doesn't smoke or make noises, leave it alone.
That's why I did some plow work with my 120 this winter. I tossed the plow on it after changing all the fluids, rewiring, and rebuilding the carb. Then I plowed our neighborhood sidewalks after our first snow of the season. This took about 1 1/2 hours. After that, I checked for leaks, oil level, and oil color. All three checked out, so I'm leaving the engine alone. It starts right up, and has enough power to about rip a chunk of my sidewalk out of the ground when I misjudged distance and didn't lift the plow up before hitting it :sidelaugh: .

Chris

 

[gator_rider2]

Brad; CLR is bath room product mix half and half with water over night a long one in tank clean out all rust fix hole in bottom first lol. Small amount to sink cap in clean that up take plastic out cap first. After the rust removed tank dried you have more holes in bottom use mixed chainsaw gas at 1/2 pint in tank to oil metal.

http://www.jelmar.com/CLRbasic.htm

 

[Brad Gyde]

Thank you so far guys..

I have some work related duties this late morning but then I'll get some shop time this afternoon (seein how the war dept. stayed home this weekend :lol: )

After lookin at the links there, I may look into the por15 route.. looks kinda like everything I need would come in one box to fix my tank issues.. and I kinda like that.. I believe my local paint supply store sells por15 products, so another bonus.

As for the engine, I know it turns freely.. I played with that last night. I'm gonna put a "temporary" muffler on it, as I know the one and only time I fired it it was louder than I care to hear (and I don't hear none too good for my age LOL)

Checking the oil made me think too.. I see where I add, but instead of a dipstick (like my 110 Deere has) it seems to just have a pipe plug. I've never pulled the plug, but is there a dipstick hooked to the plug then? If not, how do I know how much is enough? The more I think about it, I kinda wish the Deere just had a plug too though :lol: That darn dipstick don't like to stay in place.

Front tires.. well.. one was bad.. very bad.. the other not too bad.. But I got mighty lucky.. a while back I ended up with a brand new tire from a farm sale or something, and this never happens, but it was the proper size and A MATCH!! I guess a blind squirrel does find a nut every now and then.

I'm sure more of my lack of knowledge will shine through after a while.. Thanks for the help so far.

Brad

 

[Hydriv]

Thank you so far guys..

I have some work related duties this late morning but then I'll get some shop time this afternoon (seein how the war dept. stayed home this weekend :lol: )

After lookin at the links there, I may look into the por15 route.. looks kinda like everything I need would come in one box to fix my tank issues.. and I kinda like that.. I believe my local paint supply store sells por15 products, so another bonus.

As for the engine, I know it turns freely.. I played with that last night. I'm gonna put a "temporary" muffler on it, as I know the one and only time I fired it it was louder than I care to hear (and I don't hear none too good for my age LOL)

Checking the oil made me think too.. I see where I add, but instead of a dipstick (like my 110 Deere has) it seems to just have a pipe plug. I've never pulled the plug, but is there a dipstick hooked to the plug then? If not, how do I know how much is enough? The more I think about it, I kinda wish the Deere just had a plug too though :lol: That darn dipstick don't like to stay in place.

When we talked on the phone, I told you that we had an extensive library of manuals right on this site. You have been logged onto the forum many times since joining so I don't understand why you are asking this question when the answer can be found easily by you on page 10 of the parts manual. It's not that I object to being asked questions by members because I do like to help others out. However, some questions can be answered just by YOU looking in the Library first. If you can't find the answer, then ask the question. I just want to see members exercise a bit of self-help first. :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: Click on the link below and give it some time to open for you. :thumbsup:

http://www.manuals.casecoltingersoll.co ... marked.pdf

Front tires.. well.. one was bad.. very bad.. the other not too bad.. But I got mighty lucky.. a while back I ended up with a brand new tire from a farm sale or something, and this never happens, but it was the proper size and A MATCH!! I guess a blind squirrel does find a nut every now and then.

I'm sure more of my lack of knowledge will shine through after a while.. Thanks for the help so far.

Brad

There is no need to apologize for your lack of knowledge because we have all been there at one time. I am still learning every single day and my lack of knowledge shows through now and then too. :trink: :trink:

 

[Brad Gyde]

I actually looked at the parts manual the other evening..

but didja think I'd have thought to look at the dang dipstick?? LOL :sidelaugh: Well, no, no I didn't. LOL In fact, when I looked, I was looking for nothing particular, everything in general.

Tomorrow I'm gonna make a call or 3 and see if I can't find me a set of manuals though. I've bought several reprints from IH/AGCO and Deere and they're usually cheaper than getting them from Jensales, etc. I don't know if C-IH will offer them or not, but I'll find out.

I'll look at the parts manual again now.. LOL

Brad

 

[Hydriv]

Do you not realize that all of our manuals can be printed out right in your own home? And if you have an issue with the watermarking, then PM me.


If you are dead set on having an original copy, then contact one of our resident dealers such as Bob Myers. http:/www.casegardentractorparts.com

 

[Brad Gyde]

Actually, original doesn't mean anything to me in the way of manuals.. as long as they tell me what I need to know.

I did print off the parts book just now (and only had to threaten to toss the printer out the window a few times.. :lol: ), I was gonna print it the other evening when looking at it, but, I'm a procrastinator (but I'm working on that too :lol: ) but I don't see where there's a 120 op/service book available on the site.

I am for certain I have Kohler repair manuals in my file cabinet in the shop, as in high school I was going to pursue small engine repair after graduation.. I just never followed through, but have done a few repair jobs since back then, and having the proper manual for the job is usually half the battle.. I do see that the Kohler book can be obtained here too.. so if I don't actually have one, I have access to one lol.

The reason for making a call would be my best friend works as a parts man for a C-IH dealer.. whether the books would be available through them still I don't know, but it's worth a ask I guess..

I also have a neighbor that jockeys manuals, so often times I will take him a book or 2 I picked up at sales or whatever and swap.. Works out good for both of us usually.

(By the way, don't mind my missing E's in the post (I usually try to catch em, but sometimes I miss a few).. e only works when it chooses to.. kinda like the printer, and the guy posting this lol.. Wait.. I see a pattern... )

Thanks again,

Brad

 

[Hydriv]

As far as Op Manuals go, we are still looking for a bunch of them but we do have the one for the 150/190. For the most part, those tractors are the same as yours except for the issues dealing with the hydraulic drive system. That book may still be available new. By all means, ask the Case dealer. I'd like to hear about his answer. If you reach a dead end everywhere else, then try the link I gave you or send an e-mail to Bob from this site. He's under myerslawnandgarden in the members list.

Very shortly, I will be installing the Service Manuals for the 150/190/T-90 models into the Library. Once again, many of those manuals cover your 120.

 

[Phaon]

If your front tires are bad, I've found that the small trailer tires available at almost any farming store are almost identical tread pattern.

Chris

 

[Brad Gyde]

Thanks again guys.

I think I'm going to end up using wheelbarrow tires for the front.. I put air to the other 3 tires today and it was easy to see that they will all have to be replaced I went to get a tube, but, you can buy a complete wheelbarrow tire assy cheaper than just a tube.. And since it will need new rears, I'll go with a ag type tire, and the wheelbarrow tire on the front will look more like the tri-ribs on a regular tractor, (and I'd really like that!!) so..

I did get the engine to fire.. and I ended up pulling the head afterward, and I think it will need to be bored to make it good. The carb is soaking as I type, so perhaps tomorrow I'll get that back together, re-install the head and see what happens..

Is there a good way to assess the compression on the Kohler engine? I can tell spinning it over with the head off that it appears to have a compression releif, so is there a good way to try to establish how good/bad it really is? (I can feel a slight ridge in the cylinder, but no gouges/grooves, so that's a great thing!! Maybe a minimal bore on it will fix it right up.)

Here's a couple pictures of what I got so far.. I'm thinking I'll get something goin on the restore page tonight or tomorrow.

Brad

 

[Hydriv]

Disconnect the wires going to the start/gen. If you have a battery in the tractor, remove both cables from it. Use jumper cables from a vehicle. Put the negative lead onto the terminal on the start/gen that you removed the large lead from. Touch the positive lead to ground and the start/gen will spin in reverse. You can check the compression that way because the automatic compression release is defeated.

You need to get a machinist to measure the bore at O and 180 as well as 90/360 .... at the top just under the ridge, the middle and as low as he can get to see how worn and out of round the cylinder is. Then you make a judgment call. Do I do a total rebuild with a rebore, new piston, rings, rod etc or do I just cut the ridge, cross-hatch the cylinder and install new rings?

 

[Brad Gyde]

Tom,

Thanks.. I'll try that tomorrow. I've saw you guys bring up a leak down test.. How would a guy go about doing that? I've used a vac tool on 2 strokes to check for bad crank seals, I'd assume it'd be similar.

The block will likely go into the machine shop this week sometime to be measured up, and I guess a call will have to be made from there.. Money is tight this time of year, but would really like to have it ready for paint sometime in April (don't really have the best setup in my shop to paint in the cold months, so have to wait until it starts getting warmer out)

I'm almost willing to bet the best thing would be to just have it bored, along with new valve guides and seats and eliminate the headaches before they start. I'm sure I won't run it a whole lot, but if I'm gonna do this, I might as well do it correctly.

Brad

 

[Hydriv]

Just Google "leak down test" or "leak down tester" and all will be revealed.

 

[1031d]

Brad, I just rebuilt the K301 yard fogger in my 195. Its unbelievable how good it runs now. I use mine around the house still so it gets worked. I'm a machinist my trade. My bore was belled out around. 006" and out if round. 003" I could here the piston slap in mine. Between that and having to buy stock in shell everytime I ran it the old girl was tired. I got an NOS kohler rod and piston plus bought a pile of gaskets cheap on ePay. My valves guides and seats were okay. All in all with about $300 in parts and $70 in machine work I'm very happy with the results.