[eBoyDog]

Picked up a new to me Case Saturday, I debated between two different ones, a 446 had a repowered Briggs in it and 444 that had frame issues. These were the one's I posted, one was a CL find the other on eBay.

I ended up with the 446, it runs, has a blade.

The good is that well, it has character. Bass tracker seat (very comfortable BTW!), repowered with Briggs 18 hp flat twin, all the hydro seems to work, tires hold air but are weather cracked, Seller stated he just put tubes in the back which that's 50/50 is that is a positive. Most the metal is good shape with exception to the hood but I believe I have a spare that will fit it. Custom made bracket for the hydro pump.

The bad, no PTO in the front but the cooling fan was reattached during the repower, the motor while it runs has no air cleaner and the breather lines are open which I was told the engine came off a Sears rider and I'm guessing the Sears air cleaner was too tall. There are no throttle controls, engine speed is either running or off with a screw holding the carb throttle in a fixed placed. Further more I'm concerned about the engine, there's little white'ish smoke from the left cylinder when it's first started and once warmed up the left muffler is hotter (I already replace the muffler's since the old one's were rusted and the left has already turned the new silver muffler off color), I checked the plugs, left is black soot covered and the right is little black but the inside insulator is white'ish tan with soot around the edges; I'm thinking their is a problem with valves.

Now what to do with it, which would be an easy answer if I didn't already have a 220. Going stock with the engine is an option but a complete Onan engine is hard to come by AND finding a PTO clutch and hydro pump brackets will add to the expense. If swapped the engine with Vangaurd, that be better due to availablity and parts/repair. It would be good to have the front PTO, I have a deck for it and I think I might have a snowcaster lined up too but I'm not sure. Dash panel is a concern, more like butchered; a PO installed a oil gauge that isn't hooked up and a light switch (I guess they couldn't figure out the wireing on the key switch?).

I'm thinking about different options, the main reason I bought it was that it had a blade which I have been looking for and the fact that it ran despite the repowered engine. I'm not totally against the option of cleaning it up and selling it as a snow pusher this summer but I like the high profile and possiblities.

Better news is that the wife's only comment so far was that she thought it was too big, she said it made the 220 look so small but she's never been next to a real tractor before.

 

[Bart]

You're learning about the issues of a repower. Places that sell repower kits have custom made pump mounts and PTO setups but they don't, to my knowledge, sell those parts separately. Another option for you is to forget about the front PTO and make it an all hydraulic tractor. You could install hydraulic motors on the mower deck and snowblower if you need those attachments. I would do something about the air cleaner before too long or you will ruin the engine. I should think it wouldn't be too difficult to connect the choke and throttle.

 

[eBoyDog]

Yes, the absence of the air filter bothers me along with the breather lines open to the fresh air.....

I have been running the numbers off the engine and have found the air cleaner assembly and with the seller's hint that the engine came off a Sears rider, I think I found the engine came off a GT18 Sears mower (even Sears rider model #'s 917.255917 or 917.255919).

This engine is a 422437-1209-01 and by the date code was built in 1989

Anyone out there have an air cleaner that looks like the one on this engine? If you do, can you measure the total height? I have a feeling it was left off due to the space clearence of the hood.

I may have to go over to MTF to get some thoughts on the Brigg's motor.

I can hand it to whoever put the Briggs engine in, they figured out the hydo pump mounting and the fuel pump.

I have yet to figure out the fuel system yet, the OEM Briggs had the standard fuel pump on the carb which on mine, is missing (plate, gaskets and everthing) and this one has something mounted behind the battery with a hose running off what I guess is a vacum line off the engine and lines from the gas tank then to the carb, very interesting, did the Onan engines have an seperate fuel pump similer to the Kohler K's do?

 

[cp7]

Congrats eboy. I had money on you getting a 400 series. Sounds like a heck of a project cleaning it up though. The worst thing about the throttle is no governor, but those are common old engines and you should be able to find the parts for it. I've got one on an old Grasshopper and will get out after while and check out the air cleaner. Sounds like it has the vacuum pulse fuel pump. You could swap it over to an electric pump.
So what is mounted on the right side of the dash tower?

 

[eBoyDog]

That thing mounted on the right was a failed attempt by a PO to install a throttle, no cables just the lever.

The guy I bought it from didn't do the mod's, this was the way he bought and the that PO did the damage, shame was the seller was offered the old motor parts years ago when he bought it including the mowing deck but turned it down since it was no use to him and didn't want old engine parts.

It does have an intact governer, in fact the entire throttle linkage is there, just no cables attached (or mounts to attach the cable to).

I'm wondering now what I got myself into, at first look yesterday I thought the hood was just banged up in the front by someone running into something. After a few hours in the garage I tried swapping a another hood over to it and found that the it was banged up on purpose to mount it as the hood hits the the front of the engine. It appears the hood was adjusted with a sledge hammor and the nicely re-painted, what I thought was rusted mounts was just banged up really good, nice job.....

Now I could fabricate a hood to fit but then it dawned on me that the engine is sitting about 2-3 inchs forward more than the orginal did since the output shaft is longer. All I need to do is shorten the shaft in the back so the engine sits further back. Then I could start thinking about installing a PTO clutch on the front, most likely a electric PTO since chances are I "might" be able to find one that came on the Sears GT18 at a decent price. Biggest issue there would be to get the engine in the right place horizonally.

Going back to an Onan I think is out of the question, if I had the old engine to rebuild then that might be possible but I don't - In looking a Vanguard new repower kit will be about $1,800 with an electric clutch and I'm not ready to drop that kind of money yet (that I don't have).

The air filter is a problem, I see why it's off - there's no room for it, Right now I made a "filter" by using a wire and a clean shop towel. There's only about an inch of space between the top of the open carb and the hood but I may have that figured out since I have a vertical shaft 16hp briggs that has a bad block (bearing in the crank is toast). I suspect that if I use the vertical intake to move the carb side ways so that it's sitting towards the front or back of the engine I should gain at least 2 inches but that's just in my head. No idea what I'm going to do with the breather lines. Stock OEM air cleaner is out of the question.

 

[cp7]

Sounds like a ram air hood scoop is in order. If you shorten the output shaft will the adapter still work? And I believe you'll be sol on the clutch since it would probably attach to the output shaft end and not the flywheel end like a Case.

 

[eBoyDog]

Sounds like a ram air hood scoop is in order. If you shorten the output shaft will the adapter still work? And I believe you'll be sol on the clutch since it would probably attach to the output shaft end and not the flywheel end like a Case.

This is a '79 model and as I understand, these did have a scoop on the hood (only year Case did that if I understand correctly). The hood I got with it doesn't have it but that might be the only way to go if this engine stays in.

You are so right about the OEM clutch that came on the orginal GT that this motor was in, I didn't even think about that until until you mentioned it so I dug up a mid 80's Sear GT18 user manual and the clutch pulley is duel belt pully, one pulley drive the rear end and the other is electic controled to run the attachments on it. I had so much Case in my head, I forgot that Case/Ingersoll are the one of the few that have the PTO off the front (Duetz Allis GT's are the only other one I have seen).

True about the pump mount too, there's some room to move it back but not much. The 1/2 steel custom made brackets are only held onto the block case with two bolts. My gut tells me that while two bolts might be holding it right now, that alumimum housing on the briggs engine won't hold it in the long run so new mounts will be in order if I move the engine or even if I don't. Better design esp in light of the alum case of the Briggs engine would be to attach the mount bracket to the frame, who is he, "Gummy" ?? on that other site that did this:

http://data-cut.com/case448.htm

(go about 1/3 way down) he fabricated a mount for a newer Kohler and didn't attach anything to the engine but since he stretched the frame, he had more room to work with. I wonder if this is going to be end up being a custom Case GT that has hydro only? might be cheaper in the long run.

 

[Hydriv]

Only 448's came with a scoop and Boomer says that happened for the 1980 thru 1983 models.

 

[cp7]

The 446 I just got is a '79 also and it doesn't have a hood scoop. I just figured since the hood is beat up already. Mine came with a snow caster if your still interested in one for your 220 and if you really want to swap out the Briggs I've got a K321.

 

[eBoyDog]

The 446 I just got is a '79 also and it doesn't have a hood scoop. I just figured since the hood is beat up already. Mine came with a snow caster if your still interested in one for your 220 and if you really want to swap out the Briggs I've got a K321.

Ah, I stand corrected on the scoop (even though it might have one after I get done)

So CP, Do you want to trade a 18hp twin Briggs for that K321??? I will throw in broken, non-working oil pressure gauge too, perhaps to sweeten the deal I could also include a top of the line on-off light switch if that's what it takes to close the deal.

If I get your engine then I have to find the right pump bracket, PTO clutch not to mention a lot of re-wiring, exhaust, but even worse, explaining to my wife why I'm doing this, hold it, why am I doing this? Oh I remember, I bought a Case blade and the 446 came with it!

Is the K321 the one you described that had the cracked start/gen mounting ear? I do have the carb and fuel pump to make that yours work work assumeing a K301 carb/pump are the same for it.

I was bidding on a air cleaner on eBay but dropped out, the price was headed too high. $35+ which makes me wonder if there is another Case 446 with this similer engine out there missing an air cleaner or with my luck lately, the guy on ebay selling it is the same guy I just bought the 446 from.

 

[Bart]

True about the pump mount too, there's some room to move it back but not much. The 1/2 steel custom made brackets are only held onto the block case with two bolts. My gut tells me that while two bolts might be holding it right now, that alumimum housing on the briggs engine won't hold it in the long run so new mounts will be in order if I move the engine or even if I don't. Better design esp in light of the alum case of the Briggs engine would be to attach the mount bracket to the frame, who is he, "Gummy" ?? on that other site that did this:

Grummy can speak for himself but I don't think he was happy with his design of the pump mount because the frame can flex and throw things out of alignment. Making a pump mount requires some precision work to make sure the pump shaft and crank are parallel and lined up exactly otherwise you'll chew up lovejoy couplers and, possibly, damage the pump.

 

[Hydriv]

If you have ever even thought about building your own articulated Case, you now have the perfect candidate. All you need is a second trans-axle and those are not hard to come by.

The engine would work just fine for that application because you won't be able to put a deck under it and if you want to blow snow, then put a hydraulic motor on a snow caster. No one is going to get uptight over the loss of this butchered tractor to make an articulated.

Just a suggestion about making lemonade.

 

[cp7]

I wouldn't want to swap for a Briggs and it is the one that has the ears broken on the s/g. I've got the pump mount for it and the carb would work. Didn't your parts 220 have a pto? I've got an ezadjust also if needed. I don't really mean to throw all this at you right after you dumped some money but just letting you know some options.
I would think going with a Kohler in an Onan machine would be way easier than the other way around and someone will let you know.

 

[Hydriv]

Anything is possible. One can also swim upstream if you can move your arms and feet fast enough but going with the flow is much less exhausting.

Onan frames have a dropped section to allow the engine to sit lower for clearance purposes. Onans are hard bolted to the frames.

Kohlers sit an inch above the frame thanks to steel mounting brackets that float on rubber isolators. The frames for Kohlers have "dimples" pressed into the sides of them with threaded holes to receive the bolts securing the rubber isolators.

The EASIEST engine to install in that frame is another Onan. That would be like floating on an air mattress and heading downstream with the current. But who am I to question your swimming skills? :sidelaugh:

 

[eBoyDog]

If you have ever even thought about building your own articulated Case, you now have the perfect candidate. All you need is a second trans-axle and those are not hard to come by.

The engine would work just fine for that application because you won't be able to put a deck under it and if you want to blow snow, then put a hydraulic motor on a snow caster. No one is going to get uptight over the loss of this butchered tractor to make an articulated.

Just a suggestion about making lemonade.

Hmmm.... I do have another frame and rearend, would have to find a different drive motor since it's a 222 frame and rearend.

I wouldn't want to swap for a Briggs and it is the one that has the ears broken on the s/g. I've got the pump mount for it and the carb would work. Didn't your parts 220 have a pto? I've got an ezadjust also if needed. I don't really mean to throw all this at you right after you dumped some money but just letting you know some options.
I would think going with a Kohler in an Onan machine would be way easier than the other way around and someone will let you know.

I don't blame you, I put that out there more in humor, If I had a good running Kohler, I wouldn't trade it for used Briggs.

Perhaps I need to think out of the box a little, if I stay with the Briggs engine, I might as well forget keeping it OEM Case, that this point perhaps lengthing the frame might be better way. I HAD a magnum 20hp but I sold it to pay for this latest project. (Don't tell Caseman2 over at that other place, he was interested in it)

If I get crazy with it, it's going to be painted Sunset Tan, or is Desert Sunset? which ever is the proper color name. I need to get back on track and finish up detailing the 220, I had new decals in the mail over the weekend that are still in the box and my hobby budget is blown for awhile, it will be couple months before I get in another major purchase.

 

[Caseman2]

I HAD a magnum 20hp but I sold it to pay for this latest project. (Don't tell Caseman2 over at that other place, he was interested in it)...

You don't have to worry about me - I got your back - I won't tell him. :sidelaugh:

 

[eBoyDog]

Grummy can speak for himself but I don't think he was happy with his design of the pump mount because the frame can flex and throw things out of alignment. Making a pump mount requires some precision work to make sure the pump shaft and crank are parallel and lined up exactly otherwise you'll chew up lovejoy couplers and, possibly, damage the pump.

I understand the alignment issues, in fact what I have now, needs to be re-done as the homemade bracket isn't aligned right and the lovejoy bushing is toast already. Grummy's bracket would better than what I have, mine appears to be made of whatevery the guy who did it could find at the time laying around his shop.

Larger problem now is that I picked up a early 90's Sears GT that has a brand new 1995 18hp (vertical shaft) Kohler on it that has hardly been ran. The prior owner(s) at the time I guess couldn't figure out the wiring so today I'm at home going over Craftsman GT wiring and Kohler engine wiring.

I need a bigger garage!!!

 

[mikebramel]

I would just go through that engine. The front PTO shouldnt be too hard to adapt to it. That is your cheapest option. That is a good engine for grass cutting. I dont think you will be dissapointed. Just keep it clean as the valve seats are real slim

 

[eBoyDog]

I would just go through that engine. The front PTO shouldnt be too hard to adapt to it. That is your cheapest option. That is a good engine for grass cutting. I dont think you will be dissapointed. Just keep it clean as the valve seats are real slim

I think the valves are already an issue on the Briggs, something is going on were the right side is running a lot hotter than the left. Hydro pump mounts which I already described and there is the issue of the hood..... the stock air cleaner won't fit under the hood nor will the hood sit back all the way, a prior bent the crude out of the old one just to get the hindge pin in but the good news is that I have an extra one that's in perfect shape expect for the fact it won't fit now.

I have a another really good Magnum but it's a vertical shaft so I'm considering converting it to a horizonal by either modifying it's block or buying a horz. body and transplanting the jugs and guts. The Magnum's can be converted to horizonal or vertical with surprising little effort or relative major modification (if you don't call taking the entire engina apart "Major"), the MV18/20 blocks come with both vertical and horizonal mounting tabs and have pressurized oil lubercation.

Only reason I'm keen on having the front PTO is that I have a mowing deck for it that's in good shape and I hate to waste it otherwise I would go with no PTO, could always convert everything to hydraulic but that would be expensive too.

So much work and so little time not to mention my day job is getting in the way of my hobby. My son is excited about the 446, when I got my 220 fixed up, he gave up "his" old Murray and adopted the 220 as "his" and now that I brought the 446 home, now that's "his" and he gave me back the 220.

 

[cp7]

My son is excited about the 446, when I got my 220 fixed up, he gave up "his" old Murray and adopted the 220 as "his" and now that I brought the 446 home, now that's "his" and he gave me back the 220.

Wow. Never saw that one coming. :facepalm:
Next he'll want his own computer and we'll see his introduction on the forum. :thumbsup: