[JerseyJim]

Hey guys, I'm curious to know your opinions on how to proceed. The 226 I bought is not running. PO claims it needs a new ignition switch and starter. Frame is in good condition with faded paint but the motor is a mess. Here's some pics:

My plan is a frame off restoration. I see two possible courses of action: Get the motor running, then restore or dive right in to the frame off resto. I initially thought I'd get the motor running first but its such a dirty mess in there its hard to tell what else could be going on. Now I'm thinking just dive into the resto. I'm planning on pulling the heads for a carbon cleaning no matter what. Any thoughts?

Separate question: The starter shaft will not rotate at all. The bendix spins but once its fully extended, nothing. Does that confirm the starter is toast?

Thanks in advance!
Best,
Jim

 

[unclecake]

Hi Jim, Personally, I would get the engine running first. It is difficult to see, but it may just need a battery or connection to a battery that doesn't fit. As well, the rest of the exhaust should be added. An air filter would be nice, but not required (if you can protect the carb). If you don't add an air filter, I would clean it up a bit to try to keep some of the dirt that will come off of the engine from getting into the carb.

-Justin

 

[Bart]

Whenever I acquire a tractor the first thing I focus on is the condition of the engine because that is what's going to drive the cost to get it in good working condition. If the engine you have is toast then you're looking at anywhere from $500 for a working used engine to $1,200+ to rebuild what you have. The question then becomes whether you're better off finding another tractor that is already in good condition and may cost you much less than fixing up what you have.

As for the starter issue, you indicate the bendix engages but the shaft doesn't turn which makes no sense to me since the bendix won't move unless the starter is spinning. If the starter is spinning and the bendix is moving then it could be that the starter lash needs to be adjusted so that the teeth on the bendix mesh with the teeth on the flywheel.

 

[Billygoat]

The bendix spins but once its fully extended, nothing.

Is the engine stuck? I have asked myself the same questions on my 444. My plan is to get the engine done, fix the obvious stuff I see wrong while it is out. Then I was going to install the engine, run it for a while to evaluate condition of the rest. I have ways to mow the yard, so I'm not in a big hurry. Mostly want it to push snow, but I already know it's gonna grow much larger than that. After evaluation, I will pull it back apart, fix anything else that needs fixing, and give it a proper paint job. I am not doing a "full restoration", this will be a work tractor, not a parade queen. If doing a full resto, it could be done right off the bat, but you will have to guess at what, if anything is wrong and gets missed. To me it's better to run it first then restore if possible. It would be a shame to put all together real nice to have to pull it back apart again to fix some nit-pic problem.

 

[tanandorange]

Jim, I'd have to agree with these guys. Find out for sure what you have to work with, then tear down.
John

 

[JerseyJim]

Guys, thanks for the replys! I was starting to doubt myself because this engine is so dirty that I was afraid of what I couldn't see. Good to hear that I'm not wasting my time if I tackle the engine first.

As for the starter... :facepalm: I forgot to mention the PO removed it already. I'm just holding it in my hand and trying to get the shaft to spin. Bendix is free to extend its full length but the shaft is stuck. I think it should spin, right? Sorry for the confusion!

The motor is free, has oil in it that is black as midnight and the air cleaner is digusting. I think I might need to start with a a good cleaning (don't want any of that dirt getting into something else), pull the heads and clean, clean the carb and go from there. If that's ok I'll start putting some money towards parts (key, starter, carb o-ring kit, batt). Thanks again!

Best,
Jim

 

[Hydriv]

Why not start by getting the starter rebuilt locally. Phone around for prices and make a decision. Once you have a good starter back on the engine. then you can begin to diagnose what needs to be done. While the starter is being rebuilt, purchase new points, condenser, spark plugs and air filter for it. For now, just install the air filter. Also, get turkey baster from the Dollar Store and suck out all the old, stale fuel from the gas tank. Refill with fresh regular and a quarter can of Sea Foam from your local NAPA dealer. Buy a new battery for it from WalMart and install it. Inspect the condition of all the battery cables. Look for cables with INTERNAL corrosion and clean all the connections with a wire wheel. Make sure the ground cable is bolted to a clean spot on the engine block.

With the starter installed, turn the key and see if the engine spins over. Pour a thimble-full of raw gas down the throat of the carb and spin it again. If it starts and runs - good. That answers a lot of your questions right there at a minimal cost. Let the engine come up to temp, shut is down and drain the oil. Change the oil filter and install new oil. At this point, you can take a compression test. Even better, you can also do a leakdown test on it. Work on this with our Onan forum members to assess the engine. Only then, should you decide the next course of action. If the two tests show a good engine, then leave it alone for now. Pull it from the chassis and get on with restoring the tractor. Then close up the openings in the engine, put the old air filter back in and bathe it in engine cleaner. Use a pressure washer to remove all the initial crap. Then remove all the tins so that you can clean the fins and flywheel area. You may even want to remove the flywheel because that area can harbor some real nasty accumulation. The tins can all be refinished at this point.

New points, condenser, coil wires, fuel filter and air filter can be added. Take the top of the carb and check the float chamber for crap. Use that turkey baster to suck that crap out of the carb. Do everything you need to do on this engine before you put is back in the frame including de-carbonizing and setting the valves and points.

 

[Snotrocket]

Think twice before you buy an ebay starter.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=583&hilit=starter

 

[JerseyJim]

Excellent plan! Many thanks, that's how I'll proceed.

I had been considering a starter from DB Electrical http://www.db-starter-alternator.com/p- ... b0006.aspx . I've been running their high torque model on my truck for the past year and have been very pleased http://www.db-starter-alternator.com/p- ... 17802.aspx . However, I have started hearing rumors from other truck owners that units purchased recently aren't as good.

My dilemma is here in the 'burbs where nobody does anything for themselves anymore (my neighbor has a lawn service and it literally took 20 minutes with a push-mower) is there are no local shops that rebuild starters. I'll do some more snooping around and see if I can find a shop within an hour. If not, I may ship it to one of the shops listed in that other thread.

Thanks again guys!
Best,
Jim

 

[Bart]

If you've got the original starter you're probably better off getting it rebuilt as the older cores are better made than a lot of the new stuff from offshore.

 

[eBoyDog]

I have never rebuilt a starter before but on my 446 the starter did the same when I got it as has been described.

I $20 some bucks and got the starter kit from Gary's Place http://www.gphope.com/store/cat/57 and after walking though the testing procedure of the service manual (found here on the reference section) my starter is working perfectly.

Beats going out and spending big bucks right away. If you have the Bosch starter, I bet that $20 kit with brushs, springs and bushings will bring your starter back to life. If it doesn't work all you are out is $20. Hardest part was re-installing the base with the brushes BUT a thin cardboard with a slot cut out to hold them in place works wonders while you lower the shaft back down over them, then once they in place, slide the cardboard out.

 

[JerseyJim]

Great, thanks for the tip on Gary's! $20 plus my time is worth it.

BTW, I checked with my local family-run shop that does high-quality auto repair. There is no one left in the area they trust to do starter overhaul.

Best,
Jim

 

[eBoyDog]

I don't know all the variations of starters on Onan's but Gary's Place also has the parts for "denso staters" which I think is a misspelling of "Denso Starters", I know on my BF engine and the B48M have the Bosch starter on them. If it's a Bosch, it should be stamped on the end, something like "Bosch America".

Be careful when you take yours apart, you don't want to drop the case (or any parts for that matter!) as the magnets can be broken loose and then the only way to fix it might be epoxy.

 

[BowlBuilder]

I also had problems with starters breaking the mounting plate. Upon close inspection, I discovered that the nylock nuts which I used for the engine mounting bolts were interfering with the plate, causing stress on the plate and eventually breaking it. I remedied the problem by reversing the bolt and placing the nut on the bottom. I have since been running a Chinese starter for about a year with no problems. Hope this helps.

 

[JerseyJim]

Thanks again guys!

Eboy, I noticed Gary's has a couple of different kits. I'll try to post a pic of my starter in the next day or two and see if you guys can tell me which one it is. My quick inspection of it revealed no manufacturer's name on it.

Another question, if I may: The fuel tank is empty and there appears to be 23 years worth of crud in there. Also, the fuel line looks original and the fuel filter is almost as black as the lines. I'd sure hate to cause myself a problem with the carb so I am thinking of a temporary fuel system rig for engine test purposes. Does a gravity-feed from a tank above the carb sound right? I'm not sure gravity-feed is necessary because of the fuel pump.

Best,
Jim

 

[Snotrocket]

Removing the tank and replacing the line is pretty straight forward. You might as well just do it now. I can't imagine it taking more than an hour or so.

You'll have that much time in rigging up a temp solution.

 

[JerseyJim]

Removing the tank and replacing the line is pretty straight forward. You might as well just do it now. I can't imagine it taking more than an hour or so.

You'll have that much time in rigging up a temp solution.

Excellent, thanks!
Best,
Jim

 

[JerseyJim]

Hi guys, a couple of pics of the starter:

Only markings I could find on the unit:

Since it doesn't say Bosch on it, I would assume the generic Kohler/Onan rebuild kit from Gary's would be what I want. Just want to confirm.

Also, the PO removed a bunch of stuff to get to the starter. Here's a pic of the fuel pump:

It looks to me like there was a fourth barb on the top-right edge that was broken off (in port?). Is the unit supposed to look like it does in the pic or is something missing?

Thanks!
Best,
Jim

 

[BowlBuilder]

Here is an onan brand NOS starter on ebay with a steel mount. I don't know much about these, but it appears to be what everyone is looking for. http://cgi.ebay.com/STARTER-GENUINE-ONA ... 1707wt_765

 

[JerseyJim]

Here is an onan brand NOS starter on ebay with a steel mount. I don't know much about these, but it appears to be what everyone is looking for. http://cgi.ebay.com/STARTER-GENUINE-ONA ... 1707wt_765

Thanks for the reply! However, I think I'll try the $20 rebuild kit before I go for a whole new starter.

Best,
Jim