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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ive been thinkin about doing this for awhile, I dont think Its just a convience feature, I expect Ill cut my plow time considerably, and also do a neater job, Often times its just not worth it to stop and manually change for one or two passes. But/So givin the top speed of low range, being more efficient with each pass is key.

The cost of the cylinder was $100.00. cost of steel $10.00, & 4-5 hrs shop time.

The next step is upgrading all piviot joints,







kubotakid...aka...Burnt Orange :usa2:
 

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This is a project that is worth documenting.

If you will make a rough sketch of the bracket you made up that shows all the dimensions on it, Arienna will make up a CAD drawing. A 2nd drawing should show exactly where the bracket is to be welded on the blade mule and a 3rd should show the spot where the hole for the cylinder should be drilled in the blade's support bracket. The exact dimensions of the cylinder plus a source of supply along with any other notes you might have about the project should be included. When Arienna completes his work, he will show you what he has done so that you can go over it for final approval to indicate it is 100 percent correct. At that point, it will go into the new PLANS section.

What do you say?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hydriv said:
This is a project that is worth documenting.

If you will make a rough sketch of the bracket you made up that shows all the dimensions on it, Arienna will make up a CAD drawing. A 2nd drawing should show exactly where the bracket is to be welded on the blade mule and a 3rd should show the spot where the hole for the cylinder should be drilled in the blade's support bracket. The exact dimensions of the cylinder plus a source of supply along with any other notes you might have about the project should be included. When Arienna completes his work, he will show you what he has done so that you can go over it for final approval to indicate it is 100 percent correct. At that point, it will go into the new PLANS section.

What do you say?
Thank You Trouble,.. :trink:

HyDriv:
ARE YOU KIDDING ME ???? How could I say NO..... you SEXY devil u,.. :twisted:.. :sidelaugh:

Yea, Ill sketch a new ruff draft, I usally build stuff like this a couple times in my head /on paper anyway.

kubotakid...aka...Burnt Orange :usa2:
 

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Hydriv said:
This is a project that is worth documenting.

If you will make a rough sketch of the bracket you made up that shows all the dimensions on it, Arienna will make up a CAD drawing. A 2nd drawing should show exactly where the bracket is to be welded on the blade mule and a 3rd should show the spot where the hole for the cylinder should be drilled in the blade's support bracket. The exact dimensions of the cylinder plus a source of supply along with any other notes you might have about the project should be included. When Arienna completes his work, he will show you what he has done so that you can go over it for final approval to indicate it is 100 percent correct. At that point, it will go into the new PLANS section.

What do you say?
What do you think about including a link to this thread on the plans? At the very least include the photos as part of the plan package. That way anyone interested in doing this project could also review the discussions and photo's
 

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This is very cool and something I've wanted to do for awhile. I actually prefer using the blade unless the snow is very deep. I want to see how it's plumbed into the tractor as well. Very nice. It looks very simple.

I just added a couple new things in the "Plans" section if you want to see what it could/will look like if you submit it. :thumbsup:


Nice work on the pics btw. I hope you tell everyone that complains they can't post pics how simple it is once you do it once. :trink:
 

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Any consideration to the cyl rod end being fastened in a welded to frame, "clevis" bracket? I envision the end and/or bolt being stretched or bent or broken off. Also, a circuit cross over relief at the cylinder to protect the frame overall. The leverage of the outer blade edge catching a curb might ruin your good work. Looks like a really nice setup otherwise...
 

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kjkansasdan said:
I think that if you let the trip springs do the job you won't have any trouble.
Agree, however in some angles crabbed left or right, the trip spring may not be geometrically favorable to a straight line tractor push if the outer blade cutting edge or above, catches a curb or similar.

Snow plows on pickup trucks are a good example. You can beef a weld or frame and then the next weakest part of the frame will reveal itself in the right circumstances...
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
bhildret said:
Looks very nice ... keeps all the geometry on the mounting frame ...

Let us know how it does under load. Did I catch along the way that you were considering an offer to do the frame modification at your shop on a return core basis?

Brian
Thanks Brian, Yes, Ill be quoting the conversion, after testing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
jbadman said:
Any consideration to the cyl rod end being fastened in a welded to frame, "clevis" bracket? I envision the end and/or bolt being stretched or bent or broken off. Also, a circuit cross over relief at the cylinder to protect the frame overall. The leverage of the outer blade edge catching a curb might ruin your good work. Looks like a really nice setup otherwise...
jb, I not concerned with the bolt bending breaking or otherwise, Do you realize its 3/4 dia?
If I were to spec the cylinder for this application it would have 5/8 swivel ends not 3/4. The cylinder mount itself is 3/8 thick! Its "over built" just the way I like it :thumbsup:

As far as the bypass valve, Why add the expence? It would be cool to play with but I dont see any need?
 

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kubotakid said:
jbadman said:
Any consideration to the cyl rod end being fastened in a welded to frame, "clevis" bracket? I envision the end and/or bolt being stretched or bent or broken off. Also, a circuit cross over relief at the cylinder to protect the frame overall. The leverage of the outer blade edge catching a curb might ruin your good work. Looks like a really nice setup otherwise...
jb, I not concerned with the bolt bending breaking or otherwise, Do you realize its 3/4 dia?
If I were to spec the cylinder for this application it would have 5/8 swivel ends not 3/4. The cylinder mount itself is 3/8 thick! Its "over built" just the way I like it :thumbsup:

As far as the bypass valve, Why add the expence? It would be cool to play with but I dont see any need?
No, I didn't realize it was a 3/4 bolt, it wasn't stated in the dialogue...But I'm interested in the upcoming test results. What assumptions will you use for the test, ie. tractor that has the rear wheels fully loaded with fluid and cast weights for worst case, tire chains, the tractor at working travel speed at a nominal high rate for worst case, running full rpm into a immovable or nearly immovable ground object with a specified frictional push (pushing dirt, hitting hidden buried rock, or curbs, etc) ? How will the spike load distribution across the bolt, rod end, extended cylinder rod, and bracket be measured? Do you anticipate any other weak points in the frame or blade? Like I said, its a nice looking job and I like the idea, but for production or user recommendation I recall you suggesting that this be tested thoroughly... Given the traction the high wheel tractor has, anything can be broken but to what nominal working condition be used for the assumption that represent the group who would want to build or buy this improvement? Just wondering, ... I might be interested in one. Thanks.
 

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I like your design; nice work!
Being furhter away from the blade's pivot bolt than the OEM pin holes will exert less force on the cylinder mount than the pin would have seen; given an equal "ramming speed" test.

Paul
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
jbadman said:
kubotakid said:
jbadman said:
Any consideration to the cyl rod end being fastened in a welded to frame, "clevis" bracket? I envision the end and/or bolt being stretched or bent or broken off. Also, a circuit cross over relief at the cylinder to protect the frame overall. The leverage of the outer blade edge catching a curb might ruin your good work. Looks like a really nice setup otherwise...
jb, I not concerned with the bolt bending breaking or otherwise, Do you realize its 3/4 dia?
If I were to spec the cylinder for this application it would have 5/8 swivel ends not 3/4. The cylinder mount itself is 3/8 thick! Its "over built" just the way I like it :thumbsup:

As far as the bypass valve, Why add the expence? It would be cool to play with but I dont see any need?
No, I didn't realize it was a 3/4 bolt, it wasn't stated in the dialogue...But I'm interested in the upcoming test results. What assumptions will you use for the test, ie. tractor that has the rear wheels fully loaded with fluid and cast weights for worst case, tire chains, the tractor at working travel speed at a nominal high rate for worst case, running full rpm into a immovable or nearly immovable ground object with a specified frictional push (pushing dirt, hitting hidden buried rock, or curbs, etc) ? How will the spike load distribution across the bolt, rod end, extended cylinder rod, and bracket be measured? Do you anticipate any other weak points in the frame or blade? Like I said, its a nice looking job and I like the idea, but for production or user recommendation I recall you suggesting that this be tested thoroughly... Given the traction the high wheel tractor has, anything can be broken but to what nominal working condition be used for the assumption that represent the group who would want to build or buy this improvement? Just wondering, ... I might be interested in one. Thanks.
jb,
I used seat of the pants engineering for this project. Basically relying on my 40+ years of design and build experince. I use to manufacture a 300 lb all aluminum radio controled vehicle that I designed for horse trainers. I had to provide my insurance co with data for a what if it ran wild event. Even though I sourced the electronics out, I would be first in line if it malfunctioned.

I dont remember the formula, But I remember the results, If you bring a 300 lb object, traveling @ 15 mph to a DEAD stop, It developes approx 6000 lb of force.

Iam running 12 x 16.5 loaded heavy wall R4s on my 466. 150 lbs of wheel weights. A stack of weights on the rear,+-300 lb. the blade, and 225 lb for the opperator. I guestamate 1850 lbs+.

If I reverse the math on the RC vehicle, It was 20.1. @ 15 mph. 1850 x 20 = 37,000 lbs of force. So do I think my cylinder mount will take that kinda force? Yes,. absolutly. The only thing Iam not pleased with, are the welds. My MIG welder let the smoke out, So I was using a stick. And Iam outa pratice using a stick welder. Dont worry about that Iam working on a deal for a new machine.

Here are a few reasons why those numbers are over the top of anything even remotely possable.

1) Top speed wont reach 15 mph, Probably closer to 10.

2)The blade will cushion the impact, I told a prospective GT dealer that If he hit a solid object at full speed, full angle, that the blade would waud up,..or the mount would tear loose from the tractor before my Power Angle works would fail. Guranteed.

3) Any Idiot thats plowing snow at full speed with the trip pin engaged, And rams a curb!!
Will be literarly and figurativly removed from this test :rockon: SO subtract 225 lbs while his A double S will go flying over the hood, And only the resistance of his junk being removed should be considered in the inertia impact figures,.. :headscratcher: :sidelaugh: Ill let you decide how much or little that is :wtf:

You asked me to consider all the aspects of traction, the big tires, especially using chains..While pushing dirt, encountering a stone below surface,etc. And I can tell you with absolute certainty, That available traction figures in compairson to inertia impact figures are irrelovent.

Ill give you an example,.. If I place my truck up against a tree and nail it,..I doubt there would be any damage,. Now,.. If I back up 10 feet and then nail it...you get my point.

I did say that I was going to test this unit before quoting a price for a complete package. But my testing wont be doing any crash testing, I think too much of my tractor :grin: I tell you what,. If you decide you want me to do the conversion on your blade and It fails you,..Ill repair it,. no charge. Feel free to do all the ram testing you wish, In fact Ill give you your money back and fix it for free. I would much rather pay you to tear up your tractor to find any weak links than tear up mine,. :rockon: .
On another note,
I read another post of the broken belly cylinder mount, this one was mjoe7s, And It shed a different light for me on the whole lift rod duties. pt# 33841. Its pretty clear that lifting the blade is only part of the force put threw that assembly.

kubotakid :usa2:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
ing3018 said:
I like your design; nice work!
Being furhter away from the blade's pivot bolt than the OEM pin holes will exert less force on the cylinder mount than the pin would have seen; given an equal "ramming speed" test.

Paul
Thanks Paul, Thats the reason for getting as far out as i did, Which ment triming of some of the orignal bracket. Which is not a problem. The only reason for them to continue the wrap around like they did was because they needed the heavy metal for a blade stop (under the swival plate) Also was easier and cheaper, Steel didnt use to cost a dollor a pound.

kubotakid :usa2:
 

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kubotakid said:
jb,
I used seat of the pants engineering for this project. Basically relying on my 40+ years of design and build experince. I use to manufacture a 300 lb all aluminum radio controled vehicle that I designed for horse trainers. I had to provide my insurance co with data for a what if it ran wild event. Even though I sourced the electronics out, I would be first in line if it malfunctioned.

I dont remember the formula, But I remember the results, If you bring a 300 lb object, traveling @ 15 mph to a DEAD stop, It developes approx 6000 lb of force.

Iam running 12 x 16.5 loaded heavy wall R4s on my 466. 150 lbs of wheel weights. A stack of weights on the rear,+-300 lb. the blade, and 225 lb for the opperator. I guestamate 1850 lbs+.

If I reverse the math on the RC vehicle, It was 20.1. @ 15 mph. 1850 x 20 = 37,000 lbs of force. So do I think my cylinder mount will take that kinda force? Yes,. absolutly. The only thing Iam not pleased with, are the welds. My MIG welder let the smoke out, So I was using a stick. And Iam outa pratice using a stick welder. Dont worry about that Iam working on a deal for a new machine.

Here are a few reasons why those numbers are over the top of anything even remotely possable.

1) Top speed wont reach 15 mph, Probably closer to 10.

2)The blade will cushion the impact, I told a prospective GT dealer that If he hit a solid object at full speed, full angle, that the blade would waud up,..or the mount would tear loose from the tractor before my Power Angle works would fail. Guranteed.

3) Any Idiot thats plowing snow at full speed with the trip pin engaged, And rams a curb!!
Will be literarly and figurativly removed from this test :rockon: SO subtract 225 lbs while his A double S will go flying over the hood, And only the resistance of his junk being removed should be considered in the inertia impact figures,.. :headscratcher: :sidelaugh: Ill let you decide how much or little that is :wtf:

You asked me to consider all the aspects of traction, the big tires, especially using chains..While pushing dirt, encountering a stone below surface,etc. And I can tell you with absolute certainty, That available traction figures in compairson to inertia impact figures are irrelovent.

Ill give you an example,.. If I place my truck up against a tree and nail it,..I doubt there would be any damage,. Now,.. If I back up 10 feet and then nail it...you get my point.

I did say that I was going to test this unit before quoting a price for a complete package. But my testing wont be doing any crash testing, I think too much of my tractor :grin: I tell you what,. If you decide you want me to do the conversion on your blade and It fails you,..Ill repair it,. no charge. Feel free to do all the ram testing you wish, In fact Ill give you your money back and fix it for free. I would much rather pay you to tear up your tractor to find any weak links than tear up mine,. :rockon: .
On another note,
I read another post of the broken belly cylinder mount, this one was mjoe7s, And It shed a different light for me on the whole lift rod duties. pt# 33841. Its pretty clear that lifting the blade is only part of the force put threw that assembly.

kubotakid :usa2:
kk, after reading through all that, my simple question remains yet unanswered. My purpose in contributing was not to critique you, rather give some ideas on what IMHO might be encountered, and express my interest in buying/building one assuming you tested and perfected it. I have structural experience too, however engineers have varying ideas on matters. On your comment, ...You could not pay me enough to test your design on my tractor based on all this. It does seem a test for nominal worst case identified with planned assumptions would aid to avert other's future dissatisfaction. I do wish you good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
jbadman said:
kubotakid said:
jb,
I used seat of the pants engineering for this project. Basically relying on my 40+ years of design and build experince. I use to manufacture a 300 lb all aluminum radio controled vehicle that I designed for horse trainers. I had to provide my insurance co with data for a what if it ran wild event. Even though I sourced the electronics out, I would be first in line if it malfunctioned.

I dont remember the formula, But I remember the results, If you bring a 300 lb object, traveling @ 15 mph to a DEAD stop, It developes approx 6000 lb of force.

Iam running 12 x 16.5 loaded heavy wall R4s on my 466. 150 lbs of wheel weights. A stack of weights on the rear,+-300 lb. the blade, and 225 lb for the opperator. I guestamate 1850 lbs+.

If I reverse the math on the RC vehicle, It was 20.1. @ 15 mph. 1850 x 20 = 37,000 lbs of force. So do I think my cylinder mount will take that kinda force? Yes,. absolutly. The only thing Iam not pleased with, are the welds. My MIG welder let the smoke out, So I was using a stick. And Iam outa pratice using a stick welder. Dont worry about that Iam working on a deal for a new machine.

Here are a few reasons why those numbers are over the top of anything even remotely possable.

1) Top speed wont reach 15 mph, Probably closer to 10.

2)The blade will cushion the impact, I told a prospective GT dealer that If he hit a solid object at full speed, full angle, that the blade would waud up,..or the mount would tear loose from the tractor before my Power Angle works would fail. Guranteed.

3) Any Idiot thats plowing snow at full speed with the trip pin engaged, And rams a curb!!
Will be literarly and figurativly removed from this test :rockon: SO subtract 225 lbs while his A double S will go flying over the hood, And only the resistance of his junk being removed should be considered in the inertia impact figures,.. :headscratcher: :sidelaugh: Ill let you decide how much or little that is :wtf:

You asked me to consider all the aspects of traction, the big tires, especially using chains..While pushing dirt, encountering a stone below surface,etc. And I can tell you with absolute certainty, That available traction figures in compairson to inertia impact figures are irrelovent.

Ill give you an example,.. If I place my truck up against a tree and nail it,..I doubt there would be any damage,. Now,.. If I back up 10 feet and then nail it...you get my point.

I did say that I was going to test this unit before quoting a price for a complete package. But my testing wont be doing any crash testing, I think too much of my tractor :grin: I tell you what,. If you decide you want me to do the conversion on your blade and It fails you,..Ill repair it,. no charge. Feel free to do all the ram testing you wish, In fact Ill give you your money back and fix it for free. I would much rather pay you to tear up your tractor to find any weak links than tear up mine,. :rockon: .
On another note,
I read another post of the broken belly cylinder mount, this one was mjoe7s, And It shed a different light for me on the whole lift rod duties. pt# 33841. Its pretty clear that lifting the blade is only part of the force put threw that assembly.

kubotakid :usa2:
kk, after reading through all that, my simple question remains yet unanswered. My purpose in contributing was not to critique you, rather give some ideas on what IMHO might be encountered, and express my interest in buying/building one assuming you tested and perfected it. I have structural experience too, however engineers have varying ideas on matters. On your comment, ...You could not pay me enough to test your design on my tractor based on all this. It does seem a test for nominal worst case identified with planned assumptions would aid to avert other's future dissatisfaction. I do wish you good luck.
jb.. If I understood you correctly, in your eariler post you expressed an Intrest in buying or building one, But even from the begining were questioning my design, So I explained to you that you were underestemating the strength of a 3/4 bolt, and 3/8" thick steel. yada yada,

I even told you if you buy, and have any problems with it Ill fix it for free, I even dared you to break it. And if you succeded Id give you your money back, FULLY understanding you were going to try and break it. and your still not happy,... Oh well,. you cant say I didnt try..

kubotakid :usa2:
 
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