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After more trouble shooting we discovered the Internal PRV in the motor was bad so instead of replacing the $450 motor we installed a $120 external adjustable PRV on the case drain set at 1500 psi and everything is working perfectly. Sorry I couldn’t review the motor but if someone is having the same issue I had here’s a cheaper alternative. Happy Mowing !!
 

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1993 Ingersoll 4118
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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
@Pipeliner76 , you never stated what your issues with your deck motor were. We can assume they were the typical issues.
What motor does your deck have?
When you say we, did you have the motor at a hydraulic shop?

I think we're getting somewhere here.👍
 

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@Pipeliner76 , you never stated what your issues with your deck motor were. We can assume they were the typical issues.
What motor does your deck have?
When you say we, did you have the motor at a hydraulic shop?

I think we're getting somewhere here.👍
Your right, I never disclosed my issues. It started with a leaky shaft seal. I took the motor apart and found a new seal at a local hydraulic shop. I reassembled the motor with the new seal. The leak was fixed but I now had no torque in the motor. The blades would spin but any resistance would stop them. I took the motor back apart and discovered the PRV was not functioning properly ( assuming it was just tired or worn out) either way my hydraulic guy suggested the external PRV which worked out perfectly and with no permanent modifications to the tractor or the mower. Oh, also my motor is the Ultra.
Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Your right, I never disclosed my issues. It started with a leaky shaft seal. I took the motor apart and found a new seal at a local hydraulic shop. I reassembled the motor with the new seal. The leak was fixed but I now had no torque in the motor. The blades would spin but any resistance would stop them. I took the motor back apart and discovered the PRV was not functioning properly ( assuming it was just tired or worn out) either way my hydraulic guy suggested the external PRV which worked out perfectly and with no permanent modifications to the tractor or the mower. Oh, also my motor is the Ultra.
Hope this helps.
It does help. Most with the stalling/lack of power issues seem to have the Webster motor. I don't know if the Ultra motor used the same internal valve. Did you get any pictures of yours while you had it apart?

It has mostly been referenced that this was a check valve to protect the motor from reverse operation. As a failed relief valve dumping oil down the case drain, we can see why performance suffers.
Now we're getting somewhere
Tim
 

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It does help. Most with the stalling/lack of power issues seem to have the Webster motor. I don't know if the Ultra motor used the same internal valve. Did you get any pictures of yours while you had it apart?

It has mostly been referenced that this was a check valve to protect the motor from reverse operation. As a failed relief valve dumping oil down the case drain, we can see why performance suffers.
Now we're getting somewhere
Tim
Sorry, no pictures. As I use the mower I will update with any changes or issues.
 

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I recommend great caution with operating the motor on a pressure regulated case drain line. Under the right conditions, ultra motors will blow the seal at less than 100psi case drain pressure.

If you are doing very soft starts (at engine idle) and soft shut downs (PTO disengaged after engine is at idle and deck is fully coasted to slow speed), then you might be able to keep the seal intact.

It is a very interesting finding ... I too have thought most of the 'insufficient power' issues were related to the Webster motors.

Brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
I recommend great caution with operating the motor on a pressure regulated case drain line. Under the right conditions, ultra motors will blow the seal at less than 100psi case drain pressure.

If you are doing very soft starts (at engine idle) and soft shut downs (PTO disengaged after engine is at idle and deck is fully coasted to slow speed), then you might be able to keep the seal intact.

It is a very interesting finding ... I too have thought most of the 'insufficient power' issues were related to the Webster motors.

Brian
@bhildret, I have not had hands on an Ultra motor, does it have/use the same internal check as the Webster motors?
Tim
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
I can assure you it is not the 'same', but I've never detailed out the Ultra regarding internal mechanisms ...

Brian
Ok, I didn't know. Last fall I had found that 1000365-3 check valve used in the Webster motor out there in a Google search. I didn't know if they maybe used the same one in both motors.

If stopping the dumping of oil down the case drain solves some of the mystery is good, but now how to protect the motor and seal.
This certainly has not been an easy problem to solve.
 

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Ok, I didn't know. Last fall I had found that 1000365-3 check valve used in the Webster motor out there in a Google search. I didn't know if they maybe used the same one in both motors.

If stopping the dumping of oil down the case drain solves some of the mystery is good, but now how to protect the motor and seal.
This certainly has not been an easy problem to solve.
We’ll, I can tell you this ! The PRV on the case drain didn’t work. I was mowing this morning, first time using with the external PRV. The mower started bogging down a bit in some higher than normal grass and the shaft seal blew again. Im done with this tractor. I’m not a vintage or nostalgic tractor guy, I just want a mower heavier duty than the box stores that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg. If anyone out there is interested make me an offer. Pics available upon requests. Im in the North suburbs of Houston, Tx.
 

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Sh*t.
This doesn’t look too promising for me as a two week old newbie with a 4120.
Hell. I couldn’t even find hydro filter let alone an oil filter for it today at five auto parts stores in Ludington Michigan. Amazon here I come.

Am I correct in hyrdro. Wix 51348
Fram ph3614. Napa 1375.

Oil. Fram pH3600.
 

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Auto Part stores and Amazon seem like unlikely sources for your Ingersoll tractor needs ... many AH tractors are running just fine after 30 years.

Onan engine oil filter:

The Onan is sensitive to bypass pressure relief, we recommend OEM.


Ingersoll hydraulic filter:

Yes the Ingersoll filter is expensive ... but it is right. You can do some research on the forum about how many owner's have sub'd in a randomly located, 'correctly cross referenced and fit perfectly' filter, which then resulted in blow hydraulic hoses.

We try to keep both of these filters in stock at all times.

Brian
 

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Thanks brian. Do you have a belt for the 48 inch AH mower. I just found mine wound around a pulley when I opened it up.

Where are you located? Do you know of a dealer in northern Michigan by chance?
49431 area.
Thanks.

EDIT. I just went to your link. Brian. Could you please tell me if the two filters and belt is correct for my 1991 ingersoll 4120 20XSL.
Engine model P220G-I. /10904C
Serial # G913823209.
And if all is in stock.
thank you Brian.

Included is a pic.
Font Material property Screenshot Parallel Rectangle
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 · (Edited)
We’ll, I can tell you this ! The PRV on the case drain didn’t work. I was mowing this morning, first time using with the external PRV. The mower started bogging down a bit in some higher than normal grass and the shaft seal blew again. Im done with this tractor. I’m not a vintage or nostalgic tractor guy, I just want a mower heavier duty than the box stores that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg. If anyone out there is interested make me an offer. Pics available upon requests. Im in the North suburbs of Houston, Tx.
I was afraid that would happen. The case drain is to relieve pressure to protect the shaft seal. Ingersoll even moved the location of the case drain from the tcv to the low pressure line by the hydraulic filter to reduce back pressure.

The hydraulic motor you found seems expensive, but that price is a third of what OEM were selling for when still available. If it is truly a drop in replacement many would be sold.
 

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Kind of late to the party but I read this last night and my first inclination was that restricting the case drain to 1500 psi was simply putting a band aid on the real problem which is internal pressure leakage in the motor which is exiting through the case drain rather than blowing the shaft seal.

IMHO, if the replacement motor for $450 is a verified replacement for the original Ultra hydraulic motor it is a bargain and you will have a heavy duty tractor/mower that will outlast a box store tractor many times.

Bob
 
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