[Billygoat]

I am trying to find the specs on the hydraulic motors used on various CCI attachments. Displacement and max rpm specifically. I ran across some small hydraulic motors at work that were headed for the trash. If I know what the specs are for various motors and their function, I hope maybe I can use that information and the information on found motors to make a couple of projects.

 

[Hydriv]

I'm not trying to be difficult here but the term "motors" is pretty generic. There are geroller motors, gerotor motors, gear motors, vane motors, variable displacement motors, axial piston and radial piston motors. Each type has its plusses and minuses. The application matters. Look at our tractors. The drive motor is a geroller style that has a displacement of 13 to 17 cubic inches. The tiller motor is the same type but smaller internally. Motors for the decks and snowblowers have special bypass valving inside them for soft starts and stops. Presumably, the chipper/shredder, Hydra Vac and HydraCutter are similar because they all have rotating masses that don't start and stop on a dime.

Keep in mind that the pumps on our tractors are normally around .62 cubic inches in displacement and pump 9.5 GPM at 3600 RPM. If you want to drive something at certain speed, then a small motor displacement will spin faster and a larger one will spin slower. Gearing can sometime compensate but is not always desirable or possible due to space constraints.

You need to ask yourself whether those motors were actually worn out or damaged. If they are known to be good, then I suggest you get the info off them and find out what the specs are. To me, that is far more useful to know than what you are asking.

 

[ING6018]

Mr. Goat,

I don't have info on the vac or tiller motors, but there is some info in this thread about the motors on 3 point finish mowers and chipper/shredders that might get you started:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1996&hilit=hrm48H

 

[Alan_H]

I'm not trying to be difficult here but the term "motors" is pretty generic. There are geroller motors, gerotor motors, gear motors, vane motors, variable displacement motors, axial piston and radial piston motors. Each type has its plusses and minuses. The application matters. Look at our tractors. The drive motor is a geroller style that has a displacement of 13 to 17 cubic inches. The tiller motor is the same type but smaller internally. Motors for the decks and snowblowers have special bypass valving inside them for soft starts and stops. Presumably, the chipper/shredder, Hydra Vac and HydraCutter are similar because they all have rotating masses that don't start and stop on a dime.

Keep in mind that the pumps on our tractors are normally around .62 cubic inches in displacement and pump 9.5 GPM at 3600 RPM. If you want to drive something at certain speed, then a small motor displacement will spin faster and a larger one will spin slower. Gearing can sometime compensate but is not always desirable or possible due to space constraints.

You need to ask yourself whether those motors were actually worn out or damaged. If they are known to be good, then I suggest you get the info off them and find out what the specs are. To me, that is far more useful to know than what you are asking.

:goodpost:

That's very informative, thanks!

 

[Billygoat]

Hydrive- The motors are unused just laying on a shelf. I am going to investigate what they are. I just wanted to know what the factory used on various stuff to see somewhat of a comparison. Say a motor on a hydravac is close to one I found maybe I can put one on a blower to clear leaves off the driveway or something stupid like that. The idea is to maybe build a piece of equipment around the motor, not find a motor for a specific piece of equipment. Clear as mud? :sidelaugh:

ING6018-That's the kind of stuff I'm looking for! Thanks. :thumbsup:

 

[bhildret]

. Say a motor on a hydravac is close to one I found maybe I can put one on a blower to clear leaves off the driveway or something stupid like that.

To the best of our knowledge, the hydravac motor is proprietary to Ingersoll. If someone can find a substitute that requires little adaptation, many would be grateful.

Brian

 

[Hydriv]

Here's how I would handle it. My response would be. "If you are going to throw those motors out, then throw them my way instead." I wouldn't care what they were as long as they are FREE. I would then figure out what I had and decide if it was even remotely possible to use them in conjunction with my tractor. If not, then I'd put them on e-Bay and sell them to someone who can make use of them. Motors are never cheap to buy even when you find them on sites that specialize in surplus equipment. If someone told you that there were some old bars of gold laying in the stockroom all covered in dust and they were going to toss them out, would you ask what the Carat value of them was? :sidelaugh:

 

[InTroubleAlltheTime]

BG Once you get a hold of them why not snap a picture and pull off whatever specs you can and post here. You may get some good feedback that way too.
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich

 

[Billygoat]

Here's how I would handle it. My response would be. "If you are going to throw those motors out, then throw them my way instead." I wouldn't care what they were as long as they are FREE. I would then figure out what I had and decide if it was even remotely possible to use them in conjunction with my tractor. If not, then I'd put them on e-Bay and sell them to someone who can make use of them. Motors are never cheap to buy even when you find them on sites that specialize in surplus equipment. If someone told you that there were some old bars of gold laying in the stockroom all covered in dust and they were going to toss them out, would you ask what the Carat value of them was? :sidelaugh:

That's exactly what I'm doing except for the selling part. If they get sold the money would belong to the company. They don't mind them being put to good use but would frown on me selling their stuff to make a profit. It's a great privelage and I won't abuse it.

. Say a motor on a hydravac is close to one I found maybe I can put one on a blower to clear leaves off the driveway or something stupid like that.

To the best of our knowledge, the hydravac motor is proprietary to Ingersoll. If someone can find a substitute that requires little adaptation, many would be grateful.

Brian

I'm not looking to replace any motors on factory equipment. I'm just trying to arm myself with some knowledge. This is kind of like a high school shop project where the teacher hands you a hydraulic motor and the key to a CCI tractor and says "Use this tractor to power this motor and make something useful."

 

[Hydriv]

Forgive me but you said that the company was going to toss them in the trash.

If the motors are taking up valuable real estate in their stock room and are obsolete for their needs, then the company has written them off on their books long ago. If they toss them in the trash, then they lose all rights to control what happens to them at that point. Ownership has effectively been transferred and the party that now has possession does not owe the company a dime. If they want to pay an employee to find a buyer for them, then that's what they should do. Anything they get for them is called "capital cost recovery" and is supposed to be entered into the companies books under that category. That amount is then subject to corporate taxes.

Maybe I've got it wrong but it sounds like "sucking and blowing" to me. These motors either have value to the company or they don't. End of story.

 

[Hydriv]

[
This is kind of like a high school shop project where the teacher hands you a hydraulic motor and the key to a CCI tractor and says "Use this tractor to power this motor and make something useful."

Fair enough. So as a high school student, your first task is to discover exactly what kind of motor you were handed along with the specs for it. Once armed with that information, you can then decide what useful device can be powered by this motor. I think that they call this process... "reverse engineering". :lol:

 

[Billygoat]

Metal objects go in the scrap metal dumpster, for which they receive money. If one can find a use for something once in a while, it's no big deal. If people take things just to sell or scrap out their ownself, the company would put an end to all employee use. It's not wise to take take undue advantage of a great privelage.

 

[WVshooter]

Forgive me but you said that the company was going to toss them in the trash.

If the motors are taking up valuable real estate in their stock room and are obsolete for their needs, then the company has written them off on their books long ago. If they toss them in the trash, then they lose all rights to control what happens to them at that point. Ownership has effectively been transferred and the party that now has possession does not owe the company a dime. If they want to pay an employee to find a buyer for them, then that's what they should do. Anything they get for them is called "capital cost recovery" and is supposed to be entered into the companies books under that category. That amount is then subject to corporate taxes.

Maybe I've got it wrong but it sounds like "sucking and blowing" to me. These motors either have value to the company or they don't. End of story.

I can relate to this situation. I work for a large manufacturing corporation and once things have been deemed of no use to the company, they typically will let employees have them. HOWEVER, part of the agreement is that these things must not be sold. Period. It is the company's property to give away, and they can decide to cancel this privilege should you use the items in a way they do not like. Since we like this privilege(and our employment), we tend to follow their rules. That is not to say that you can't trade it, though.

 

[Billygoat]

Eaton 103-1028-012, (Grainger # 5PZJ6) 10.1 cubic inch, 343 max rpm, 2300 psi max. If I had my head on straight when I did the math, I would end up with 23 or 24 rpm running it off the PTO.

Parker MGG 20016, spec BA1A3, 2000psi cont, 2500psi inter., .372 cubic inch, 5000 rpm max. Way to small to run directly off PTO.

 

[Hydriv]

Eaton 103-1028-012, (Grainger # 5PZJ6) 10.1 cubic inch, 343 max rpm, 2300 psi max. If I had my head on straight when I did the math, I would end up with 23 or 24 rpm running it off the PTO.

Parker MGG 20016, spec BA1A3, 2000psi cont, 2500psi inter., .372 cubic inch, 5000 rpm max. Way to small to run directly off PTO.

The Eaton motor would rotate at 221 RPM

The Parker --- 6000 RPM Oops.. Can you say "overspeed"?

The Eaton is similar to what we find on the tillers so if you have an application for a slow turning, high torque motor then it might be a good choice.

The Parker could be used for high speed, low torque applications providing you used other devices to limit the amount of oil flow to it.

 

[ing3018]

Project suggestion for the little motor: Find an old leaf blower (the kind you roll around) with an shot engine and use that motor to power it. Fabricate a mule drive mount for the front. Reduce the motor speed down to around 3500 RPM. Super riding leaf blower!

 

[case680rob]

Ideas for the torque motor.

Post hole auger, hay elevator drive, or gear it down to less than 60rpm for a big rock screen separator drum or cement mixer drum.

Rob

 

[Billygoat]

Post hole digger was one of the projects I was thinking about and the leaf blower was the other. Thank you for correcting my math Hydriv. Placement of a decimal point makes a big difference. I assume I would have to gear down the speed for a post hole digger. Don't most run around 100-125 rpm? I could install a dash mounted tach to keep engine speeed under control so as not to blow the little one apart! :crazy:

 

[case680rob]

I know we are talking apples and oranges here, but Cat 1 shaft drive tractors have 6-12" augers turning somewhere around 200 at full throttle, with the tractor only running between 20 and 30 HP. I'd say that if you plan on using a 6" or smaller auger you would be ok with full motor speed, as long as you think it will have the torque to drive the auger in your soil.

Rob

 

[Hydriv]

OK.... here's where I toss in my 3 cents on the subject of post hole diggers.

If you choose to make one for our tractors, then here's my idea. Go to the scrap yard and try to find a 6 foot length of aluminum H-beam. The H-beam will stand vertically and mount onto the 3 point hitch. The motor will be mounted to a 1" thick aluminum plate which will have ball bearing races attached to it that will sandwich the outer flange of the H-beam somewhat similar to that of a beam trolley for a chain fall but with bearings on both sides of the flange instead of just the one. This will allow the motor plate to travel up and down on the H-beam. You then need a chain (#50) and a couple sprockets along with a hydraulic cylinder to make the motor slide travel the length of the H-beam. The motor direct drives the auger but it does so by way of modified wheel hub from a light truck so that the auger's loading is on the tapered roller bearings inside a cast iron hub. That will isolate the motor from everything but torsional loading. The motor can be mounted solidly to the shaft that goes through the hub to eliminate the need for coupler. The housing of the motor would not be mounted solidly but it would have a bracket bolted to it that would float slightly before hitting snubbers that arrested rotation.

To take this one step further, the three points of the hitch would attach to another 1/2" thick aluminum plate and the H-beam would swivel back and forth (left and right) on a pivot. A very small hydraulic cylinder with perhaps a 6 inch stroke would control the verticality of the H-beam on that axis. Substituting the top link of the 3 pt with another small hydraulic cylinder would give you control over the other axis. A spike on the bottom of the H-beam would penetrate the ground by way of the down pressure of the hitch along with the tractor's weight which would be increased by a full compliment of wheel weights, 6 ply Ag tires and RimGuard.

A separate valve bank would control the motor and the three cylinders of the digger and the whole thing would plug into the stock rear PTO valve.


Conventional PH diggers that are mounted on CAT 1 hitches rely on a long arm at a steep upward angle with the auger on the end. This design won't work on our tractors for several reasons. 1. The front end of the tractor is too light for something sticking that far out the back. 2. You can't make the geometry work for you to get the auger high enough off the ground during travel and still dig a hole 4 feet deep.

There.... now you guys have something to talk about. Try and poke holes in my design. :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: