[Bret446]

CLUB,

Boomer, and myself noticed the cab Manuals, B1326, and 9/51411 have pages partially cropped off.
I am looking for the application chart for the cabs.
I have a 79 446, and wish to take the cab off it and place it on a 1984 448.
Knowing the 2'' longer difference in frame length, need to know if it will fit, CORRECTLY.
Boomer and I dont believe it will fit on the 84.
Please let me know any info, as well as can we get a corrected manual view?
Thank you

Bret :446:

 

[Hydriv]

Manual B1326 is 100% complete. No pages are cropped.

Manual 9-51411 is a poor copy and we are looking for a replacement.



The cab will fit either tractor. The difference is the in the adapter brackets which would be required on your 79 but not needed on the 84. All of this is set out in those manuals.

 

[Bret446]

OK, well when speaking of Brackets, and not needed, what exactly are we speaking of.
Also, I guess would help me if you could explain the 2 inch placement and where that moves accordingly with the cab and frame. I am "assuming" that the front would either hit the steering wheel or my back would be riding on the back window.

Thank you for help and further info.

Bret

 

[JasonHovell]

Bret-

I haven't looked at my cab for a couple weeks since I haven't had to use it yet... Are you able to fudge with the black brackets in the front at all? If mounted on the inside of the orange steel wall, move them to the outside I'm thinking would give you some room to take in/out...

I believe I have a longer cab, and that's why I had to make those angle iron mounting brackets on my frame that you were asking about when we met...

Essentially, it wasn't fitting as it should have, so with a few modifications in the front brackets, I made it fit.

I left you a comment on the yahoo group today by the picture of your cab. If you need the hinges for your cab doors, let me know as I have some I no longer need since I made steel doors.

Mery Christmas!
Jason

:446:

 

[Hydriv]

OK, well when speaking of Brackets, and not needed, what exactly are we speaking of.
Also, I guess would help me if you could explain the 2 inch placement and where that moves accordingly with the cab and frame. I am "assuming" that the front would either hit the steering wheel or my back would be riding on the back window.

Thank you for help and further info.

Bret

Since I have never mounted one of these cabs, I cannot be the one to advise you how to do it. What I do know is that Case/Ingersoll made J1, J2, K1 and K2 versions of the cab and that's it. Those cabs were used on all of the 200/400 Series tractors. According to the manual under discussion, the K2 cab can be used on tractors before and after 1980 when the 2" frame stretch took place. If an owner or a dealer ordered one of these cabs, then it would have come with the Op Manual B1326 and the instructions would have been followed. Why assume anything? Remove the cab from your 1979 and place it in position on your 1984 with the front mounts in the same spot for the moment. Yes. you sit two inches further to the back but since lots of these cabs are in use on LWB tractors, there must be enough room in them that the 2 inches doesn't make any significant difference. The manual is quite clear as to which brackets are used for the older tractor. Perhaps the real question here is whether you have a K Series cab or a J Series cab. Do you even know?

 

[Bret446]

Well, by looking at the cab and the chart available on the parts manual It would be the j2 or k2, but I have no idea and there is not any tags on the cab as far as I know....?
Where I am at with the 84 448 is I am looking to purchase it, and take the cab off the 79. I wish to be sure it will work before I buy it though.
As far as brackets, I thank you and will get back to you on that.
So, hopefully I can make sense of this before the weeks end so I can make a decision.
Thank You

 

[Hydriv]

I am not aware of Case putting any tags on the cabs like they did on decks, blades, blowers, casters etc, so that makes things difficult for everyone. However, we do know that the J2 cab was earlier then the K2 cab and Case changed the LETTER designation on all attachments if they made a significant modification to how that item was built. It would seem to me..........and this is just speculation on my part as a result of this conversation..............that the K Series cabs were introduced right around the time when the wheelbase was increased on the 400 models. In all my time on these forums, I do not recall any conversations about the K2 cab being a bit longer than the J2 but it's certainly possible. The brackets needed for the pre-80 models are inserted on the top of the fenders at the rear corners of the cab.....according to B-1326 and also B-1326 states that it replaces the A-1326 manual and it should be discarded. You might want to take a look at the A manual and compare it to the B manual to see what the difference is between the writings and pictorial diagrams.

Problems such as this often come down to old-fashioned detective work and that is one of the reasons why we publish ALL of the manuals we can lay our hands on. In addition, I would ask all of the members who have a 400 Series tractor with a cab mounted on it, to help out with this issue. Please......take a moment and make a measurement between the front of the cab and the rear of the cab just below the roof line and post that measurement here along with the year/model of your tractor or the model/serial number. In addition, I would ask that you take a look at ITEM 6 on PAGE 6 of this Parts Manual

http://www.manuals.casecoltingersoll.co ... marked.pdf

and tell us if you have these brackets on your pre-1980 444 or 446.

As you have seen, we have a new member here who is trying to make a decision about a tractor purchase and needs some help in sorting this issue out. Since it hasn't been discussed in the past to my knowledge, your input on this issue will help others in the future. Thanks for your anticipated co-operation. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[k0jdd]

I have a 1977 446 with what I believe to be a J2 cab (mostly) based upon the curtail style-doors.
I am using the brackets on page 6.
I will measure the roof tonight - I keep forgetting to do that.

The bottom of page one of this thread (click me) has pictures of the brackets/spacers and some discussion about mounting that continues into page 2.

As you can see from the pictures, my cab is slid back about 2" from perfect alignment with the rear fenders. It is that way primarily because the PO had a different cab on it - once upon a time - and I used the same holes. The seat is within 2" of the rear wall. Lots of clearance for the steering wheel.

I think there is a reasonable about of front back adjustment available when mounting for the first time.
If believe that the probability of the steering wheel hitting the front motor cover is almost null... You are more likely to hit the back wall with the seat.

k0jdd

PS - This cab was on a 4020 when I bought it, but it had home-made front brackets and was not using the rear spacers.

 

[Bret446]

OK, well I know my cab is resting on what appears to be wood spacers, about 3/4-1 inch thick.
SO I guess I would not need the spacers then to put on the 1984 448, as I believe the spacers are for the 79 and before.
I am interested in what you cab measures too, but also notice you have a short wheel base, but also knowing it came off a 4020, would say it should definitely work on the 84.
SO we'll see. Still wondering if there is a manual out there with the 448 in the chart. :headscratcher:
Thank you
Bret

 

[Hydriv]

One of our members sent me a PDF of 9-51411 and the chart definitely says that the K-2 cab fits 442, 444, 446 AND 448.

Just the same, I would still like to hear back from members that have the steel cabs on their tractors and post the length of the cab just below the roof panel. Just tell us what model/year tractor the cab is on. Let's see if we can learn something from this exercise.

 

[Bret446]

I take it that the J2 Cab is the same then?
Am I following you correctly on this?
Thanks to who ever posted that manual.

Bret

 

[Hydriv]

The chart does not make reference to the J-2 cab and that is exactly why I have asked the membership for their help with this problem. We need to find out once and for all..... exactly what the difference is between the J-2 and K-2 cabs. Case did not change the letter from J to K for no reason. After all, we are still using the F-27 Sleeve Hitch Adapter today even though the F designation dates back to 1969.

I have this sneaking suspicion that there is going to be a difference in the length of the cabs between the J-2 and K-2 cabs but we will have to wait and see what information springs forward. :thumbsup:

 

[Bart]

The J models have the "curtain" style doors whereas the K models have hinged doors.

The easiest way to distinguish between the 1 and 2 version of either model is to measure the front window glass--the 1s use glass measuring 19.75" in height whereas the 2s are 22" in height.

The 2s are for the high profile models.

The spacer blocks that sit on the fenders were only for use with K models on older tractors. The rear panel and side support brackets are one piece on the Ks--different size for the 1 and 2.

The J models had different support brackets for the fender mounts and different panels to fill the area between the bottom of the rear panel and the tractor frame.

The roof is the same on all models.

The front and rear window frames are the same for both J and K models.

 

[JasonHovell]

The J models have the "curtain" style doors whereas the K models have hinged doors.

The easiest way to distinguish between the 1 and 2 version of either model is to measure the front window glass--the 1s use glass measuring 19.75" in height whereas the 2s are 22" in height.

The 2s are for the high profile models.

The spacer blocks that sit on the fenders were only for use with K models on older tractors. The rear panel and side support brackets are one piece on the Ks--different size for the 1 and 2.

The J models had different support brackets for the fender mounts and different panels to fill the area between the bottom of the rear panel and the tractor frame.

The roof is the same on all models.

The front and rear window frames are the same for both J and K models.

To all who may care-

I have the 22" glass window as well on my 79-446. The cab originally had the curtain-style of door...

I will note that my model did not have the pre-fabbed holes in the rear for the rear pto hydraulics, so I torched holes to accomodate it... I want to say a guy by the name of "Millrat" posted some photos in the yahoo group to help with this alteration, and they were invaluable. Looking through my notes, he says that he thought he had a K-series cab that he had to do this too...

I thought originally that maybe the lack or addition of pto hole had to be the difference between the series, or the door style (hinged vs. curatin) had something to do with it but never have known for sure...the glass height like Bart mentions seems like a more logical answer for a 1 or 2 series change...

Jason

 

[Bret446]

Bart, So you are saying that the "1" which the manuals refer to are for the 200 series and the "2" series are for the 400 series.
I definitely dont have the curtain style, as mine is orange and has the hinged doors. I would then say this answers the question then with this info if correct the cab will fit the '84 448, as the roofs are the same dimensions. The question I get is are you measuring glass or glass while installed in the cab, if the frames for the glass are the same? :think:
Thanks Bart and we'll keep going here, as well as thanks to all who have replied.

Bret :goodpost:

 

[Bart]

Bret,

The glass dimension is the actual glass size which is approximately 1/4" less than the opening in the steel panel. Basically the window on the 400 models is 2" higher top to bottom. Now that we've all had this discussion I'm going to have to take a tape measure and see what I have--I think mine are all 2s but lacking any ID info I've never bothered to verify what they are. I've been wanting one to fit on a 200.

If it was unclear, the frames are the same between the J1 and K1 and the same between the J2 and K2 but the frames are different between the 1s and 2s.

 

[ing3018]

One of our members sent me a PDF of 9-51411 and the chart definitely says that the K-2 cab fits 442, 444, 446 AND 448.

Just the same, I would still like to hear back from members that have the steel cabs on their tractors and post the length of the cab just below the roof panel. Just tell us what model/year tractor the cab is on. Let's see if we can learn something from this exercise.

For the smaller wheel tractors: K1 Cab on a 1992 3018PS: Roof length is 32"; window height is 20".

Also, check addendum page in back of the 9-51411 manual. There is a note about a change in design for cabs made after August 1983.

The manual I sent Hydriv is the same scan I sent him back in January. For some reason, when it got posted on the site, it was cut off. I got the impression he was only posting "teasers".

Paul

 

[Bart]

The manual I sent Hydriv is the same scan I sent him back in January. For some reason, when it got posted on the site, it was cut off. I got the impression he was only posting "teasers".

Paul

I was going to scan my parts manual that covers all of the models but he told me he had it already. If he sucks up to me a bit I still might scan it but I'll reveal everything. :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh:

 

[Bret446]

What then would be a give away if the cab had curtain style, and then if someone changed that to the door?
Dan H. said he never saw hinges like mine before, so now I question my cab on that area... :crazy:

Thank you,

Bret

 

[Bart]

What then would be a give away if the cab had curtain style, and then if someone changed that to the door?
Dan H. said he never saw hinges like mine before, so now I question my cab on that area... :crazy:

Thank you,

Bret

A photo of what you have would make is easier to know what it had originally. The OEM doors swing on a pin at the top and bottom of the door frame--there is no traditional hinge. The bottom pin is supported by a small piece of angle iron with a hole in it and it is bolted to the side of the rear frame. If the cab came with a swinging door there would be two holes on each side where the support bracket was bolted to the frame.