Case Colt Ingersoll Tractors banner
21 - 39 of 39 Posts

· Premium Member
Joined
·
3,219 Posts
I found a nice youtube on changing the hydraulic oil from CaseIngersoll tractors Northeast that changed by your alternative of removing the hose. I think I will do that. He did disconnect the spark plugs and then cranked the engine to push out the oil and also moved the travel lever back and forth to also remove - that was also done after filling to "bleed" the system, but said there usually isn't much bleeding necessary. But he did not mention the caution about the coil. I've never dealt with that and not sure where it is even. 1. regarding disconnecting power to the coil - is that just taking off a positive wire? 2. regarding grounding the spark plug wire that was taken off - is that like attaching an alligator clip to it with the other end to the frame? thank you. Happy New Year cb
If you read the comments below the video I commented on that video, and he responded. Over all it's a good video.

Removing moving the plugs is not mandatory, but with the plugs out the engine will not build compression making it easier on the starter and battery. I go on the theory every little bit helps over the years ;) With the solar electrics when lead acid batteries were the norm, it was common knowledge the deeper you drain the battery, the shorter it's life. With the sub zero temp the battery in my 3012 just died, 7 years on a little 275 CCA battery was very good.

(1) Yes you can take off the positive wire from the coil. Or (2) Put the spark plug or snug fitting bolt or screw into the spark plug wires and use a jumper to a good ground like the battery negative. To be honest burning out the coil does not happen a lot, but often enough to warrant playing it safe.

cheers,
Gordy
 

· Registered
Joined
·
375 Posts
I Was going to link the video but seen you found our video lol. You can use many different options as we stated in the video and will have good results. If its in the budget we recommend Scheaffers synthetic oil over anything else for engine, hydraulics, grease etc. In the engines we prefer 5-40, 15-40 or 20-50 synthetic "racing" or "diesel" oils. But not everyone has the budget to do so. But synthetics are preferred. But every one has their opinions and many of them work. Many argue that diesel oil or racing oil is not needed.... well Again lots of things will get the job done...But some get it done better and for longer. "GOOD" Racing and diesel oil have many advantages. One being very high levels of zinc, high zinc is needed for flat tappet engines as it helps greatly with metal to metal contact and impact as well as lubing including gear contact like in pumps and motors, gear boxs etc... Also racing and diesel oil is designed for high temps and stressful environments (IE hard working diesels and racing engines) very much like any air cooled small engine. I will say above all and type, weight etc. clean, cool oil is the most important of all things. Thanks for watching our videos too.
Like gasoline engine oil, diesel engine oils no longer have high levels of zinc (ZDDP). The good news for these little engines is, with the low RPM that they spin, the valve springs are pretty light reducing the need for high zinc.

Oils have different ratings. Some diesel oils are rated to also be used in gasoline engines and some are not. I would check to make sure the oil has an "S" rating for gasoline engines.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
560 Posts
Like gasoline engine oil, diesel engine oils no longer have high levels of zinc (ZDDP). The good news for these little engines is, with the low RPM that they spin, the valve springs are pretty light reducing the need for high zinc.

Oils have different ratings. Some diesel oils are rated to also be used in gasoline engines and some are not. I would check to make sure the oil has an "S" rating for gasoline engines.
Like gasoline engine oil, diesel engine oils no longer have high levels of zinc (ZDDP). The good news for these little engines is, with the low RPM that they spin, the valve springs are pretty light reducing the need for high zinc.

Oils have different ratings. Some diesel oils are rated to also be used in gasoline engines and some are not. I would check to make sure the oil has an "S" rating for gasoline engines.
Not true, Racing engine oils and diesel engines maybe not every one of them as we have not seen every one ever made.. but many we have seen and use for sure DO have higher levels of zinc.... Besides the cases of oil on the shelf saying it, the manufactures claiming it, we also see many oil samples with actual proof of higher zinc levels..
 

· Registered
Joined
·
560 Posts
Not true, Racing engine oils and diesel engines maybe not every one of them as we have not seen every one ever made.. but many we have seen and use for sure DO have higher levels of zinc.... Besides the cases of oil on the shelf saying it, the manufactures claiming it, we also see many oil samples with actual proof of higher zinc levels..
Here is just one that we use.. up to 2000 PPM Zinc additives. I consider that very high when a lot call high zinc over 1000 PPM. Most older engine manufactures had a min requirment for zinc in oil and would not warrenty engines if that was not met. Todays engines not as much but I would consider our equipment's engines "old" for sure and thats not a bad thing lol
 

Attachments

· Registered
Joined
·
684 Posts
Here is just one that we use.. up to 2000 PPM Zinc additives. I consider that very high when a lot call high zinc over 1000 PPM. Most older engine manufactures had a min requirment for zinc in oil and would not warrenty engines if that was not met. Todays engines not as much but I would consider our equipment's engines "old" for sure and thats not a bad thing lol
Guys just know that just this very subject drove me away from this site together with the so-called experts that insisted on discrediting everyone that disagreed with them! Frankly what is available at the pump and in the store is what we have. I go back to the time where the only thing available was leaded gas! The same talk you guys are laboring on was the hot topic of the day back then too - yeah want to talk the 70's! really? Get OVER it otherwise it will consume us.
We are in the age on ethanol gas but most of our small corroborated engines were built in the 60-90's So our options are non-ethanol or ethanol gas and then only in the states that allow that. We know, and can be proved that non-ethanol gas works well in our type of small engines. We also know that ethanol gas is corrosive to the type of aluminum our carbs are made of. Everything else does not even matter. Will leaded gas increase the longevity of the valves - possibly so if you want to add some lead to the fuel go for it.. Just my two cents guys.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
375 Posts
Not true, Racing engine oils and diesel engines maybe not every one of them as we have not seen every one ever made.. but many we have seen and use for sure DO have higher levels of zinc.... Besides the cases of oil on the shelf saying it, the manufactures claiming it, we also see many oil samples with actual proof of higher zinc levels..
Many do, but not all and high levels is relative. Diesel oil used to have more zinc in it than it does now. Today's Rotella is different than 10 years ago.

Oil test wear tests have also shown NO correlation between a oil's wear resistance and it's ZDDP (zinc) level. Some high zinc containing oil is good some bad. I would...and do, put lower zinc containing oil in my flat tappet vintage Mustang than Lucas Oil's high zinc "Hot Rod" oil. As I recall it placed 261 out of about 280 oils tested. Yes, it says "high zinc" on the bottle but not "contains crappy oil" :) In other words, what is on the label is marketing.

Zinc is really only an issue for flat tappets with high spring pressures.

Racing oils are often formulated for short term use. Read up on a specific oil if you intend to use it longer term.

Some like the info in this blog and some dismiss it. I find it a pretty good comparison of oils:


It is a VERY long blog. Use the F3 key to open a search box.

Granted, that all relates to engine oil and not oil used for hydraulics. :)
 

· Registered
Joined
·
560 Posts
Guys just know that just this very subject drove me away from this site together with the so-called experts that insisted on discrediting everyone that disagreed with them! Frankly what is available at the pump and in the store is what we have. I go back to the time where the only thing available was leaded gas! The same talk you guys are laboring on was the hot topic of the day back then too - yeah want to talk the 70's! really? Get OVER it otherwise it will consume us.
We are in the age on ethanol gas but most of our small corroborated engines were built in the 60-90's So our options are non-ethanol or ethanol gas and then only in the states that allow that. We know, and can be proved that non-ethanol gas works well in our type of small engines. We also know that ethanol gas is corrosive to the type of aluminum our carbs are made of. Everything else does not even matter. Will leaded gas increase the longevity of the valves - possibly so if you want to add some lead to the fuel go for it.. Just my two cents guys.
Not really sure what you are trying to say here? Why one chooses to be offended or aggravated is of importance and I am not sure what it has to do with the conversation... What we are talking about is available lol.. Nothing to do with 70's or gas... Im not sure who is consumed by a subject on a computer screen by strangers but I see everyone is different..Somehow this got onto the subject of gas? Im not sure if you are agreeing ethnol is garbage or not and agree lead was good for engines designed to use it. But suggest adding lead is fine and good, kind of like we are talking about adding Zinc? I guess in the end we all are putting our "2 cents in" ....
 

· Registered
Joined
·
560 Posts
Many do, but not all and high levels is relative. Diesel oil used to have more zinc in it than it does now. Today's Rotella is different than 10 years ago.

Oil test wear tests have also shown NO correlation between a oil's wear resistance and it's ZDDP (zinc) level. Some high zinc containing oil is good some bad. I would...and do, put lower zinc containing oil in my flat tappet vintage Mustang than Lucas Oil's high zinc "Hot Rod" oil. As I recall it placed 261 out of about 280 oils tested. Yes, it says "high zinc" on the bottle but not "contains crappy oil" :) In other words, what is on the label is marketing.

Zinc is really only an issue for flat tappets with high spring pressures.

Racing oils are often formulated for short term use. Read up on a specific oil if you intend to use it longer term.

Some like the info in this blog and some dismiss it. I find it a pretty good comparison of oils:


It is a VERY long blog. Use the F3 key to open a search box.

Granted, that all relates to engine oil and not oil used for hydraulics. :)
Yes Rotella and others have changed formulation but are still higher zinc than most oils, There is lots of proof that zinc helps in wear.. As the reason it was added to engine oil by almost all oil manufactures at one time and is one of the few additives to actual hydro oil as well for the same reason.. Yes there are differences in oil for sure, I did not suggest "Lucas high zinc" as I have never used or researched it. But Scheaffers oil is tops and hard to beat and been proven. Yes there's lots of marketing, but I am going buy the many trucks, farm tractors, heavy, farm, garden equipment I have own or dealt with along with my experiences in the race world and many oil samples and reports as well as talking directly to the fluid and oil companies and engineers about numerous topics and questions over the years. Not the marketing label alone. I may agree high pressure springs need high zinc as you say above and there is a issue if they do not have it (though thought you said there is no proof zinc slows wear or protects? I am a little confused.) And I did not say these little old engines will not last without high zinc oil, what I was trying to convey and maybe did a bad job I apologize. Is High zinc oil will benefit these engines and high zinc oil tends to always be designed to be used in high load/harsh environment conditions and situations, engine situations that are very similar to air cooled engines with minimal oil capacity that is often neglected and this racing/diesel type of oil is a benefit to air cooled engines too for may reasons besides the Zinc. Yes as you are saying some race oil is not meant for tens of thousands of miles of use like diesel oil.. But Our machines should be changed every 25 to 50 hours and thats very very, short term, much shorter than what racing oils besides break in oils are designed for.. Again not here to argue and and like stated above everyone has their 2 cents and we are all free to do what we want and pass on each of our experiences and the others can do what they want with that info. My final thought is oil is cheap even if $75 a gallon, compared to engine and parts and pumps etc. For US its far worth the small expense to use the best parts, products etc to get the best performance and life out of any equipment we own and or deal with. Peace of mind for me. Now if someone is happy saving a few bucks, using the cheapest products they can fine that meet min requirements and makes them happy then I by all means have nothing to say about it as long as we each are happy with what we choose to do that directly effects ourselves then have at it and wish the best results for all. And hope it did not seem I was putting someone down for doing that as I was not at all. I was only trying to share experiences and info.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
560 Posts
I found this today would it be worthy?...........Curt
Yes that would work on engine or hydraulics. 5-40 is a good choice for cold weather too, can use year round. We choose to use heavier weight in the summer. and 5-40 most times in the winter. Good luck and enjoy!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
375 Posts
^^^ my point was really to avoid generalizations on oil. Lubricant chemistry has changed over the years, especially with synthetic oils, to where they have new formulas BETTER than the old formulas that relied on zinc.

All is good. ✌
 

· Registered
Joined
·
560 Posts
^^^ my point was really to avoid generalizations on oil. Lubricant chemistry has changed over the years, especially with synthetic oils, to where they have new formulas BETTER than the old formulas that relied on zinc.

All is good. ✌
Yes agree lots has changes since striaght weight oils in these original manuals lol. Multi weight and synthetics are far better products than the sae30 oil of yester year and think thats what the fellow above was trying to say with the gas comparison. Synthtics are hard to beat for sure thast why we prefer them, the added zinc ones we use are mostly syn too. Best of both worlds. Yes today oil can not be grouped or generlized for sure. Happy New year!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Hello,
I've only used my 448 for occasional summer mowing and rototilling. When I bought it from my father-in-law I put in 15w40 oil for the hydraulics and straight 30 for the engine.

Last week it was 60 degrees lower than today at minus 4. It stalled out on me several times, especially when I got to the end of a push ( I have a front end blade). A few days later it was in the teens and I cleaned up the driveway without a single stall. I read the manual which said to use 5w20 when below 32 degrees.

I found the small drainage hex screw to drain the oil. I used an extra long hex wrench to get away from the pipes and where I would have leverage, but I could not budget it loose. Any tips on draining the hydraulic oil? thank you. cb
I too have been using 15w-40 oil for the hydraulics forever. It was recommended here years ago to use Shell Rotella T4 Triple Protection 15W-40, & it was a great recommendation. Under $17 at Walmart for a 1 gallon jug. It's all I've been using for the past 20 years, & never had an issue !!!!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
751 Posts
Yes that would work on engine or hydraulics. 5-40 is a good choice for cold weather too, can use year round. We choose to use heavier weight in the summer. and 5-40 most times in the winter. Good luck and enjoy!
Thank you, this old far has a hard time understanding, when it comes to reading can labels, and the like. My tractor is just for snow blowing, and very little run time in the summer........Curt
 

· Registered
446 Demonstrator, several 130's etc.
Joined
·
23 Posts
Just my 2C's for what it's worth. Many here have pointed out very valid points to consider irrelevant of the oil weight you do need to factor in the wear properties. As many have pointed out ZDP concentration is a must for the gerotor motor in the transmission. It is the only component that using the correct oil type matters. The pump, hoses and valve bodies could care less. But the connecting link between the gerotor and the output shaft of the drive motor is where ZDP matters. As we all know, ZDP is being phased out, it's concentration has been falling to almost nothing. Now as far as to what weight, well realistically it comes down to wear and internal leakage. Thicker fills gaps better than thinner, temperature affects thickness. But also being able to get that oil moving at a given temperature makes the difference between being able to crank the engine over after sitting outside for day at sub zero temps and having to drag it into the garage and heat it up to over come the thick hydraulic oil. So considering the temperature extremes these hydraulic systems experience (and I have recorded temps in the 280 degree range) it makes sense to use an oil that gives you the ability to crank her up and still deliver the torque when hot. Back when this system was designed 20W40 Rotella was the norm. Finding it now over 50 years later good luck. for those who choose straight weight or a wide range the only things you need to consider are ZDP and allow the time for the hydraulic system to come up to operating temp. I personally shift the transmission into neutral on a cold start and once running at idle engage the drive lever and allow the oil to circulate for a while until I am at least in the warm to touch. Then I put her to work.
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
3,219 Posts
The zinc discussion got me thinking back to the early 80's. At a flea market a vender selling oil and additives had a wear tester set up to show how well his products were compared to others. One guy in the crowd asked the vender to test something else, turned out it was Head and Shoulders dandruff shampoo. Despite it being soap the H&S beat what the guy was selling because of it's high zinc levels.

Cheers,
Gordy
 

· Registered
Joined
·
375 Posts
The zinc discussion got me thinking back to the early 80's. At a flea market a vender selling oil and additives had a wear tester set up to show how well his products were compared to others. One guy in the crowd asked the vender to test something else, turned out it was Head and Shoulders dandruff shampoo. Despite it being soap the H&S beat what the guy was selling because of it's high zinc levels.

Cheers,
Gordy
and high detergent too...🤣
 

· Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
Hey, we finally used the word detergent! That is a somewhat relevant term since we're talking about motor oil. Lots of splash lube engines with no real filtration make a distinction between detergent and non-detergent fluid, although my overall opinion about oil is that it's better to run the correct amount, and clean, of the 'wrong oil', than to let a system suffer with low fluid level or fluid contamination with the Most Correctest Fluid (TM). It does sort of dishearten me that one of the main selling points that attracts people to higher cost fluids is the longer service interval, aka "if i buy this i can ignore it for longer!! woohoo!!".

In other words, my experience as a mechanic over the past 20 years or so says keeping it full and keeping it clean is more likely to determine the long term health of the system, then slight differences in fluid type. "My .02"
 
21 - 39 of 39 Posts
Top