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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Model 646-76 SN 9732149

I have a badly leaking hydraulic bucket cylinder #C15128.
I have been reading the manuals and I am looking at the options to repair.
I am looking at #18574 seal kit.
http://www.manuals.casecoltingersoll.co ... marked.pdf
I was looking at the procedures and wondering can I handle this seal repair? Or should this be done by a shop?
http://www.manuals.casecoltingersoll.co ... marked.pdf
Is this a simple repair job or should I replacing the cylinder? I am going to work the tractor tomorrow and really look at the rod again. I see little rust spots but no cuts.I have a distinct leak coming out of where the rod enters the cylinder.
Any guidance is appreciated. :thumbsup:
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
 

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Re: Changing Seal Bucket Hydraulic Cylinder 1976 Case 646 FE

Rich,
Sometimes..........cylinder repairs are so easy, they surprise you. Other times...... they can be a bitch. The difference between the two experiences usually comes down to one thing and that's getting that effing end cap removed from the barrel. Caps often unscrew. Sometimes there are holes in the top of the cap that take the same style of wrench that you use to change the discs on an angle grinder. It's a yoke shaped item with two pins in it. Other times a strap wrench or chain wrench or........last resort a pipe wrench will get it to spin. You always need to check for a "lock" and that is often a hole that was drilled and tapped into the joint between the barrel and the cap so that a screw could be screwed in and prevent the cap from unscrewing itself.

Put the loader up in the air just high enough so that you don't have to hurt your back to work on the cylinder. Because the cylinder is already being held in place by the loader, that's the best spot to unscrew the cap. It's far safer to do it there then in a bench vise where it could slip or get distorted from too much vice pressure. Once you get the cap loose to the point where it will spin with your fingers, then you can remove the cylinder from the tractor to finish up. Any hydraulics shop worth their salt will have the seals you need right in stock and for a fraction of what that seal kit will cost you from Eastman. Once the cap is unscrewed 100 percent, gently pull the rod, cap and piston out of the barrel. There is nothing in the barrel for you to replace. The piston is normally held onto the rod with a Grade 8 cap screw that needs to be torqued to the correct number. If you can't find that figure in the Service Manual/Hydraulics/Cylinder document, then ask the hydraulics shop. They will know.

Dismantle the piston from the rod and slide off the end cap. Take all the pieces to the hydraulics shop and they will match up the seals. Get the seal numbers they supply because the two lift cylinders use the same parts if I remember correctly. Look at what you are doing carefully because you need to install the seals in the correct direction or they won't work. So pay special attention to the seals you are removing. Make notes or a drawing and take photos if need be. :sidelaugh:

Once you have done one cylinder..... you will have no fear of taking on other ones. As I say..... it's all about the end cap when it comes to getting them apart.

There can be issues when it comes to the barrel and the rod but most of the time, those are easy to spot. The inside of the barrels must be free of rust and scoring that will destroy the piston seals. The rods must be smooth with no pitting or loss of hard chrome if you want the end seal to last. All cylinders "use" oil because they are supposed to use oil. When the rod slides out, a thin film of oil is there to protect it. The oil will attract airborne dust but the "wiper seal" that sits in front of the oil seal, removes that dust/dirt and you will see some oily, black residue build up on the end caps. When you see oil dripping off of a cylinder, that's when the seal is worn out.
 

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Tractor Whisper
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Re: Changing Seal Bucket Hydraulic Cylinder 1976 Case 646 FE

Its about half as Bad as pump. If have all tools to work snap rings that help. Take cylinder off tractor this bucket tilt cylinder. Boom lift cylinder barrel can stay on tractor. If never repack do all 3 same time. All wipers have direction to face.

By removing first snap ring with 2 small blade screwdrivers. You have to tap Gland into cylinder barrel just pass second snap ring remove second ring then gland pull from barrel as move piston are gland oil come out ports and end barrel when piston come from barrel catch pan helps.

remove all old packing carefully with out damage this practice help with new packing kit

Assemble with all parts lubed Hydraulic oil this help slide in place like inside Gland with lip turn right way that way to oil in cylinder.

Summary you get flush system again. Kits 113.43 all 3 cykinders
 

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Re: Changing Seal Bucket Hydraulic Cylinder 1976 Case 646 FE

Like gator said these cylinders are held by a couple of rings, one inner and one outer. They're more of a spiral like a key ring than a snap ring. A snap ring naturally gets smaller/bigger when you close/open it but if you can imagine fishing a key ring out of a slot that's down in a barrel. The first one is pretty easy but the deeper one really sucked getting it out. I wish they were threaded on.
For what a shop quoted me to pull one apart I could have bought a new cylinder.
 

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Ingersoll Dealer
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Re: Changing Seal Bucket Hydraulic Cylinder 1976 Case 646 FE

All the guidance above on the cylinders is pretty valid.

Be SUPER CAREFUL that you have everything well supported so the loader or bucket don't suddenly move while you are working on the cylinders ... safety first.

The C18574 seal kits have always been readily available for inventory and we sell them pretty regularly to DIYers ... $38.86.

Brian
 

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Re: Changing Seal Bucket Hydraulic Cylinder 1976 Case 646 FE

CORRECTION.

The lift cylinders use different seals than the bucket cylinder does.

I have not encountered cylinders that use the snap-ring retention system for the head or end cap. Therefore.. I bow to the expertise of gator and cp7 on what it takes to dismantle the cylinders. Perhaps one of them would confirm that a regular snap-ring plier set is all you need to extract those rings or if you need a different tool or additional tools. It sounds to me like you need to heat a couple of flat blade screw drivers and bend them 90 degrees to get under that "key ring style" retainer and then use the second one to work the retainer out of the barrel progressively.
 

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Re: Changing Seal Bucket Hydraulic Cylinder 1976 Case 646 FE

The book shows the lift cylinder kit as T41499. Is it the same price Brian? It shows that the inner retaining ring is included in the kit but is NSS by itself. Can you get it separate?

Expertise my foot Tom. I'm just to cheap to pay the shop the crazy fee so it was a matter of necessity. I still haven't done my 646 and she needs it bad but I'm dreading doing it again.
A couple picks with straight and bent tips are best.
 

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Re: Changing Seal Bucket Hydraulic Cylinder 1976 Case 646 FE

Craig,
Anyone who has performed a repair that I have yet to perform.........is more of an expert than I am. :sidelaugh: :thumbsup: At least you are able to tell Rich which tools worked for you and that removing those snap rings was a royal PITA. Personally, I think that method of securing the head is unnecessary. Having a threaded is a better way to go, especially if they expand the end of the barrel so that you don't harm the piston seals on the sharp threads during re-assembly.

I'm too cheap to pay the shop rates too, unless it is absolutely necessary.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: Changing Seal Bucket Hydraulic Cylinder 1976 Case 646 FE

Thank you all for the replies, greatly appreciated! :usa: :usa: :usa: :usa: I am going to digest this some more. I think I will give it a shot. Past situation I shipped my two hydraulic cylinders on my WD45 to Sandy Lake and they did them both for a total of $71.00. This is probably a different animal. As Gator said, if its 50% of the pump job, theoretically, I guess I should be able to do it. LOL I was afraid with the pump that Tom might have had to bring out the crying baby but little weed hopper did it with confidence with the great help here on the Forum! Thanks again.
:canada: :usa: :222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
 

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horton 20
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Re: Changing Seal Bucket Hydraulic Cylinder 1976 Case 646 FE

All that has been said about snap rings is right on,I took mine apart and took the o rings to the nearest john deere dealer and they match them up for size, For about 6 or 8 bucks works perfect. If you need a new rod which i did on a 644, go to baileys buy the correct size rod and take the pair to a machine shop and have them copy it way cheaper than a new one. It was $30 for rod and $110 for machine work. good luck horton20,
 

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Ingersoll Dealer
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Re: Changing Seal Bucket Hydraulic Cylinder 1976 Case 646 FE

cp7 said:
The book shows the lift cylinder kit as T41499. Is it the same price Brian? It shows that the inner retaining ring is included in the kit but is NSS by itself. Can you get it separate?
The T41499 is long obsolete and replaced by C28788, which we sell at $32.79.

I have had some come through here recently, but don't recall if the retainer ring was included or not. I do not have separate specs on that ring, though pretty sure I could source them if someone provided the dimensions.

Brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Re: Changing Seal Bucket Hydraulic Cylinder 1976 Case 646 FE

I was going to move some 3/4" rock this morning then play around with the bucket cylinder. So I started cranking and my wiring went on fire! :clap: :clap: :clap: The wiring is a terrific mess. :thumbdown: I actually already taped some exposed terminals, etc. but didn't change any routing. I was concerned about the wiring "job" on this tractor from the start. I am either going to get a new wiring harness or rewire it to spec per manual. I am also going to get a new factory key switch. If I had the time now I would follow Tom's recommendation and take the whole thing apart and go over the whole tractor. I guess my Forum name is quite appropriate lately! :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh:
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
 

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Re: Changing Seal Bucket Hydraulic Cylinder 1976 Case 646 FE

I wouldn't worry about it :thumbsup:

Buy a fire ext at Wally world. :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh:

I think you should buy a spare loader before you tear it apart :trink:

Build your own harness. :thumbsup:

You must have the fastest goring herd in NY. :trink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re: Changing Seal Bucket Hydraulic Cylinder 1976 Case 646 FE

Stewart said:
I wouldn't worry about it :thumbsup:
Buy a fire ext at Wally world. :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh:
I think you should buy a spare loader before you tear it apart :trink:
Build your own harness. :thumbsup:
You must have the fastest goring herd in NY. :trink:
Thanks Stewart. Yea, I kind of expected something to happen with it! :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh:
But it did kind of surprise me first thing because I was a bad boy last night and went to a waterfront bar,can you believe till 1:00AM :eek: and raised some good natured hell. :lol:
Funny a fellow stopped by to drop off some lead ingots that I will bring to my friend in Virginia so he can make lead weights for his fish nets. I showed him the CCKA (he is an engine guru) in the loader and he happened to say I should have a fire extinguisher in the garage in case one of the tractors back fires or something. A few minutes later flames!!! :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh:
I heard back from Brian and they don't carry the harness so I will build it in any case. :canada: :usa:
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Re: Changing Seal Bucket Hydraulic Cylinder 1976 Case 646 FE

Ted Miller said:
Rich,

At least its easier to work on the electrical on the 646 compare to the 2 or 400 series,

Ted
Thanks Ted, I'll be pleased to clean it up and get things right in there.
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
 

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Re: Changing Seal Bucket Hydraulic Cylinder 1976 Case 646 FE

Rich

I would go 1 size larger on the wires I replace. :thumbsup:

Crimp ends and solder. :trink:

Hope you didn't have to use S&W after a nite out. :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh:
 

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Tractor Whisper
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Re: Changing Seal Bucket Hydraulic Cylinder 1976 Case 646 FE

Brain inner eyelet snap ring fits inside barrel comes in bucket tilt cylinder kit but not outer spiral ring. Neither rings are in lift cylinder kits. Per 646-78

One question Brain are there Ingersoll to Onan part number crossover list?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Re: Changing Seal Bucket Hydraulic Cylinder 1976 Case 646 FE

I was a little concerned this may give me a real hard time so I contacted Brian about doing this and he gave me a decent quote so I shipped the cylinder off to Salem Power this morning. I appreciate the posts, something told me not to tackle this one myself. I am very busy both at work and home and sometimes I have to free up time.
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
 
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