D100 backhoe

1891 Views 29 Replies 11 Participants Last post by bobneumann, 16 d ago

bobneumann

Discussion Starter · 3 mo ago

So I have a possible line on a Case D100 backhoe attachment from a Case trencher. It's what I consider to be very inexpensive. Cheaper than I'd pay to buy steel and cylinders.

It does have some kind of control levers, but it doesn't have any kind of outriggers or a place to attach a seat.

Obviously I'd need to fabricate some kind of mount with a subframe, etc, and rework this hoe's attachment frame to match. I'd try to work out some kind of a removable deal, where the whole underslung subframe can be easily removed. And I'm already piped to send it hyrdraulic flow.

So I feel confident enough about that part of it. But: Are my (non-gusseted) axle tubes strong enough to haul the dead weight around? If did I need to reinforce them, are they cast steel or cast iron?

And I guess I'd need to fabricate some outriggers and work them into the mounting area.

Anything else I need to think about before I take the plunge?

Bob

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ROCKLAND VALLEY

· #2 · 3 mo ago

The Backhoes had not only gusseted axles but bigger axles, wider axles and rims too. Also the the counter weight and position of counter weights and mounting is important. Rear is cast steal. Out riggers are a must. Add a BH to a Non BH modle is more of a project and exspenmse than many think it is. I would look at the manuals and the hydro diagrams etc to see the differences as well as it might help. Best of luck.

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dundee222

· #3 · 3 mo ago

Adding a backhoe to your loader will make it more of a slug when you just need to use the loader for a fast or light job due to the immense weight. I'd forget about making it easily removable. As the subframe needs to be friggin rigid to the tractor, that necessitates bolting it, and the time it takes to unbolt it especially with all the bolts almost UNDER the tractor, you could probably have the job done with a wheelbarrow in the same amount of time.

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Harry

· #4 · 3 mo ago

I think the idea of a hoe is cool and a great tool to have available. That’s why I bought a 644 lbh. I personally would never attempt to add one to a GT. I’ve seen how a PO broke the frame on the 644 lbh I bought. ✌ Harry

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Frank R

· #5 · 3 mo ago

I missed out on a Bolens GT with a Kelly front end loader and a backhoe, in running condition, for $1500. The only problem was the rear axle was broken, probably from not using the outriggers.

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bobneumann

Discussion Starter · #6 · 3 mo ago

dundee222 said:
Adding a backhoe to your loader will make it more of a slug when you just need to use the loader for a fast or light job due to the immense weight. I'd forget about making it easily removable. As the subframe needs to be friggin rigid to the tractor, that necessitates bolting it, and the time it takes to unbolt it especially with all the bolts almost UNDER the tractor, you could probably have the job done with a wheelbarrow in the same amount of time.

Well, I'm not saying that I'm certain that it can be done. But I'm certain that 10 minute removable is the only way I'd do it.

I have a mental model that I think would work. The backhoe subframe would be locked parallel with the tractor frame, and pinned in place at four places: under the two frame rails right behind the front axle, and at each outer axle tube housing. The subframe itself and the cross-wise bracket that runs under the rear transaxle will be beefy, made from 1" plate. The subframe will support the weight of the hoe while driving, and absorb the shocks and loads from digging. And those loads and shocks are only delivered to the tractor right at the 4 pinning points, primarily the outermost points of the rear axles . That should prevent any undue stresses on the transaxle itself. The axle hubs, wheels, and tires will be supporting surges up to around 3000lbs. I think the hubs and wheels are up to it. I'll need to find out if the tires themselves are. I have my doubts. I might have to mount an automotive or even an LT tire.

For counterweight, I have 6 pieces of steel, about 2"x4"x48" long, each weighing about 65lbs. Those weights would be attached vertically to the outer face of the forward/lower loader boom arms. I think 2 on each side to begin with and if necessary add a 3rd weight to each side. They'll be ugly, but only while the backhoe is installed. And the bucket can still be used with them in place.

In truth I'd rather have a slightly smaller hoe than this. But it's what has presented itself. And the more I consider it, the more I think it can work, though it will definitely be a challenge.

If I get it, if I take on the project, I'll write it up as I go.

Bob

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Harry

· #7 · 3 mo ago

Certainly it is a huge project Bob. From other projects I’ve seen you process I believe you are up to the challenge. I know the Case Ingersoll loader backhoes are difficult to find. I’ve found if a person waits with cash on hand, when they come available your golden. I wish you luck with your project. ✌. Harry

Reactions: 1

scottlcy

· #8 · 2 mo ago

bobneumann said:
Well, I'm not saying that I'm certain that it can be done. But I'm certain that 10 minute removable is the only way I'd do it.

I have a mental model that I think would work. The backhoe subframe would be locked parallel with the tractor frame, and pinned in place at four places: under the two frame rails right behind the front axle, and at each outer axle tube housing. The subframe itself and the cross-wise bracket that runs under the rear transaxle will be beefy, made from 1" plate. The subframe will support the weight of the hoe while driving, and absorb the shocks and loads from digging. And those loads and shocks are only delivered to the tractor right at the 4 pinning points, primarily the outermost points of the rear axles . That should prevent any undue stresses on the transaxle itself. The axle hubs, wheels, and tires will be supporting surges up to around 3000lbs. I think the hubs and wheels are up to it. I'll need to find out if the tires themselves are. I have my doubts. I might have to mount an automotive or even an LT tire.

For counterweight, I have 6 pieces of steel, about 2"x4"x48" long, each weighing about 65lbs. Those weights would be attached vertically to the outer face of the forward/lower loader boom arms. I think 2 on each side to begin with and if necessary add a 3rd weight to each side. They'll be ugly, but only while the backhoe is installed. And the bucket can still be used with them in place.

In truth I'd rather have a slightly smaller hoe than this. But it's what has presented itself. And the more I consider it, the more I think it can work, though it will definitely be a challenge.

If I get it, if I take on the project, I'll write it up as I go.

Bob

I don’t think it’s really that difficult of a task to just add gussets to a rear end, when I find some time I’ll get one done for mine.

dundee222

· #9 · 2 mo ago (Edited)

The gussets would be the easy part. Widening the axle casting to move the outer [and now larger] bearings and machining the larger diameter axle shafts would be the challange. I'd be willing to bet once one has all the modifications done, even if you can do it all "in house", the time, parts and materials required would easily surpass just going out and buying a factory backhoe.

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scottlcy

· #10 · 2 mo ago

dundee222 said:
The gussets would be the easy part. Widening the axle casting to move the outer [and now larger] bearings and machining the larger diameter axle shafts would be the challange. I'd be willing to bet once one has all the modifications done, even if you can do it all "in house", the time, parts and materials required would easily surpass just going out and buying a factory backhoe.

The ones I have seen are the same width housings. As for axles I’d either shorten 400 axles or just run 200 axles. The axle diameter is fine, it’s a 1/16 less than what a half ton truck is running. The only thing skeptical there is the wheel flange that is welded on and could break off but if ever does that is an easy fix with a thicker flange. Not sure how wide you want to be but I running a 200 rear end and 26/12/12’s and it’s 48” wide.

bobneumann

Discussion Starter · #11 · 2 mo ago

scottlcy said:
The ones I have seen are the same width housings. As for axles I’d either shorten 400 axles or just run 200 axles. The axle diameter is fine, it’s a 1/16 less than what a half ton truck is running. The only thing skeptical there is the wheel flange that is welded on and could break off but if ever does that is an easy fix with a thicker flange. Not sure how wide you want to be but I running a 200 rear end and 26/12/12’s and it’s 48” wide.

Ok, that' s a relief about the axle diameter. I think I'll just install heavier capacity tires (I don't know what these Carlisle turf tires are rated for, but I can't imagine it's over 1000 lbs.) and run the axles as they are.

Rather than hang the weight from the differential and try to reinforce the axle tubes, I'm going to build my subframe such that it has a heavy transverse member directly beneath the differential that runs out the full width of the thick bosses at the ends of the axle tubes. I'll turn those cast bosses perfectly round and install 2" thick clamp-on collars on them. The ID of the collars will be machined to be a perfect match to the boss, and the collar outer will be square shaped, approx. 4 inches per side. The upper outer ends of the subframe transverse member will be heavily built "c" shackles sized to match those collars. So the whole subframe assembly will slide forward to mate to the tractor, and all the weight will be borne right above the outboard axle bearings. That way very little of the hoe weight is transferred to the axle tubes, barely changed from what they're carrying now.

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And here it is installed just to give a little overall perspective:

Wheel Font Automotive design Automotive exterior Auto part

I may be able to snuggle the whole assembly just a little forward from where it's pictured now. I'll mount it as far forward as possible.

Not pictured are the outriggers. Around 36" long, angled backward about 15 degrees, as far back as I can angle them and not have them be struck by the boom when it's fully swung to the side.

Bob

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DDudeinar

· #12 · 2 mo ago

bobneumann said:
Ok, that' s a relief about the axle diameter. I think I'll just install heavier capacity tires (I don't know what these Carlisle turf tires are rated for, but I can't imagine it's over 1000 lbs.) and run the axles as they are.

Rather than hang the weight from the differential and try to reinforce the axle tubes, I'm going to build my subframe such that it has a heavy transverse member directly beneath the differential that runs out the full width of the thick bosses at the ends of the axle tubes. I'll turn those cast bosses perfectly round and install 2" thick clamp-on collars on them. The ID of the collars will be machined to be a perfect match to the boss, and the collar outer will be square shaped, approx. 4 inches per side. The upper outer ends of the subframe transverse member will be heavily built "c" shackles sized to match those collars. So the whole subframe assembly will slide forward to mate to the tractor, and all the weight will be borne right above the outboard axle bearings. That way very little of the hoe weight is transferred to the axle tubes, barely changed from what they're carrying now.

View attachment 128989

And here it is installed just to give a little overall perspective:

View attachment 128990

I may be able to snuggle the whole assembly just a little forward from where it's pictured now. I'll mount it as far forward as possible.

Not pictured are the outriggers. Around 36" long, angled backward about 15 degrees, as far back as I can angle them and not have them be struck by the boom when it's fully swung to the side.

Bob

Being nitpicky here but if it were me I would have a flange on the cross member to add some torsional rigidity since the loading between the two collars will be different while in use. Judging from your sketches the backhoe will mount to the lower end below the collars so that cross member could see about half the force transferred from the hoe to the subframe. I made a beautiful napkin sketch to kinda show you what I'm meaning. Could do either in red or blue if you have the space. IMO it can only help, thoughts?

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bobneumann

Discussion Starter · #13 · 2 mo ago

That's a good point. I presume you mean to limit twisting right? I was thinking being made of inch by 3 and 1/2 that it was going to be pretty rigid all on its own. But having said that, your idea of a flange certainly wouldn't hurt. So I think I will incorporate it.

Thanks for the suggestion.

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bobneumann

Discussion Starter · #14 · 2 mo ago

Plant Tire Vehicle Wood Motor vehicle

Well, it looks like I'm taking the plunge....

Wish me luck!

Bob

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Harry

· #15 · 2 mo ago

I will definitely be following your thread Bob. I’m sure to be inspired by your project. ☮✌ Harry

bobneumann

Discussion Starter · #16 · 2 mo ago

I'm looking in the transaxle service manual to figure out where, exactly, the outer axle shaft bearing is located.

And I think I'm seeing that it only has a bushing. Is that correct, the rear axles are in bushings, not bearings? Do the lbh transaxles have bearings?

Bob

dhitching

· #17 · 2 mo ago

bobneumann said:
And I think I'm seeing that it only has a bushing. Is that correct, the rear axles are in bushings, not bearings? Do the lbh transaxles have bearings?

Bob

Font Circle Number Rectangle Screenshot

^Early 6018

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^Late 6018

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Looks like early on they had a different "bearing" for the LBH than for the loaders, but partway through the 6018 era they standardized the axle end "bearing" from the LBH over to the loaders as well. The 7020 parts manual also only shows the C26245 part number, which is a bushing.

salempwr.com

C26245 } BUSHING

BUSHING

salempwr.com

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bobneumann

Discussion Starter · #18 · 2 mo ago

Thanks, that's exactly what I needed.

I guess I'm going to just run on the 4000 series bushings that are in there. I suspect I'll be loading that axle and bushing to it's limits. It helps that the backhoe will only occasionally be attached.

Bob

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Merchlewitz

· #19 · 2 mo ago

Pretty cool, I've just located mostly everything I need for the my LBH besides the back hoe.. I was able to find the weight and the brackets.. does anyone have a picture of what the setup looks like?

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bobneumann

Discussion Starter · #20 · 2 mo ago

Like this?

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It's in the technical manuals section, on the 6000/7000 loader/backhoes page.

Bob

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