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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Now that I have my 1973 644 tearing up the grass and lifting lots of dirt - thanks to HyDrive (and others), I am now ready to get to some basics regarding operation of this wonderful workhorse.

While scooping dirt out of an old garden to relocate into the new garden area, I had to add weight to the weight box for traction when the bucket was full.

This begs the questions....

How much weight should I put in the rear weight box? :headscratcher:
How much weight is too much? :eek:
 

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silvertogold said:
Now that I have my 1973 644 tearing up the grass and lifting lots of dirt - thanks to HyDrive (and others), I am now ready to get to some basics regarding operation of this wonderful workhorse.

While scooping dirt out of an old garden to relocate into the new garden area, I had to add weight to the weight box for traction when the bucket was full.

This begs the questions....

How much weight should I put in the rear weight box? :headscratcher: As much as you can afford :thumbsup:
How much weight is too much? :eek:
When the front wheels start lifting :thumbsup: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh:

I would load my tires and add as much wheel weight as one can afford then fill your box with as much as you can :thumbsup:

Let us know how much you add
 

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There two things to consider when adding a counterweight.

The first is the weight per cubic foot of the material selected and the second is the distance from the centerline of the rear axle to the rear of the counterweight.

When operating a loader, "tail swing" can be a limiting factor when working in tight areas. You don't want to have to be constantly concerned that the counterweight is going to smack into walls, vehicles, fences and so forth every time you turn the steering wheel hard left or right. The only good thing about concrete is that it is cheap. Other than that, it's a PITA because it really does not weigh all that much and once it is poured, you are stuck with a single, solid block that is not fun to take off or put back on. A better choice comes with choosing thick, steel plates in square or rectangular forum that can be stacked directly behind the rear axle. These need to be retained to keep them from jumping off if the tractor bounces but having individual plates allows you to take them off one at a time. Another choice is old elevator weights that can sometimes be found at the local scrap yard just as thick steel plates can be. Elevator weights are rectangular in shape and are either cast iron or steel plates that are already drilled so they can be stacked.


As for total weight of counterweight, I would try for around 1000 LBS but this is where distance from the axle centerline comes into play. The further back the weight, the more influence that weight has on lifting the front wheels off the ground. The use of plates allows you to find the OPTIMUM weight with the bucket on the ground and the loader control lever in FLOAT position. You do not want the front wheels to lift when you are in FLOAT or you won't be able to steer the tractor.

Already mentioned were "tire loading" and "wheel weights". Forget about buying the OEM Case D-10 cast weights because those have become very expensive. Instead, check with all the ag dealers in your area to see if they have some heavy cast weights that fit 15 and 16 inch rims. Lots of combines used those weights as did other ag machinery. There is nothing proprietary about the wheel weigh bolt pattern on Case rims.

As for loading the tires, beet juice is the best way to go. It does not freeze, it does not corrode, it is environmentally friendly and it is almost as heavy as calcium chloride.
 

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I have 150 lb weights on each of the rear wheels, loaded tires (approx. 100 lbs each) and a 400+ lb backhoe on the 3 pt. That weight works pretty well on hard ground but chains are essential in snow, ice or soft ground.
 

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On my 6018, I've been keeping about 500 lbs of steel bar stock in an Ingersoll factory rear weight box. Seems to be a pretty good balance for all the work I've done, including moving full buckets of stone and dirt.

Using the loader forks it can quickly turn to not enough ... but nothing ever gets moved very far that way ...

Brian
 

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I cant imagine hanging 1000 lbs out back, especially on a 3 point. Especially if you end up with that weight 75% behind the main lift pins. Even if it was only 500lbs, that would be a lot more weight than 500 lbs in the factory weight box because of the rear axle/fulcrum.

I just stumbled onto a nice steel weight for free. 18" x 18" square x 5" thick plate steel. Glad I had a loader tractor to move it around. Didn't do any calcs on it, but I think it must be at least 400 lbs. I put two 5/8" Cat 0 pins dead center down low and welded a bracket up top for the top link connection. This gives me a nice compact weight that I can back up and connect to.

I have it on the back of my 448 right now, but will try it on my 644. It should make quite a difference. The only other weight I have had is a 220lb block of concrete out back. Its going to be nice not having the weight hang out so far. I think I will be using aluminum depth adjustment blocks on this thing to keep the bounce off the 3pt cylinder though.
 

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I'm not understanding where you are going with this, Grummy. There is no mention of a hitch of any kind in the OP's question.

For the most part, the issue here is to get as much weight as possible bearing down on the tire's contact patch. Keeping the weight very close to the axle centerline does just that without creating a counter-weight effect that will compromise the steering control.

The rear axle will easily handle 1000 LBS of weight. It all depends on what the weight is made of and how it is dimensioned. Your little block of steel actually weighs 464 LBS before you began welding things to it. But look how far back from the axle centerline it sits. The OP could remove his factory weight box and make a bracket up that could accept two of those steel blocks like yours and they would be projecting less than one foot from the back of the trans-axle if they were mounted vertically. However, I would much rather use steel plates 18 W x 10" Deep x 2" thick that can be added or subtracted much easier since they weigh 103 LBS each. Nine of those would give you a stack 18" tall and would weigh 927 LBS.

If he found that he needed more weight, then he could have the tires loaded with RimGuard and/or add one more plate to bring the stack to 1030 LBS. Tail swing would not be an issue.
 

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The op did speak of a weight box, and I guess that was my point... 1000 lbs in a weight box or tucked up behind the axle is one thing, and a 1000 lbs on a 3 point would be a whole different animal. So, people need to understand the mounting location before we just throw LBS around.

Just based on what I just did with my steel block on a 3 point, I already know how this tractor reacts with the 48" blower up front. When in float, engaging fwd motion has quite the momentary effect on steering traction. I might conclude that it is too heavy for reasonable operation.

It would be interesting to use 4 wheel scales to measure the 600 series stock weight on all 4 corners, both with the loader slightly raised and floating. Then a guy could attempt to do some real calculating. Clearly, the 600 series might be a bit heavier up front than a 448, but if the loader is in float, there is no way its not going to get light up front with 1000lbs in the stock weight box when the bucket is empty. That box hangs out pretty far. A guy has to remember that your not always running around with a full bucket, and sometimes you have to climb hills with that bucket empty.

Granted, finding some thick plate to mount as close as you can and eliminate that stock box is ideal.
 

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I am talking about the weight box that mounts to the frame, which doesnt come out as far as the 3pt lift arms. You are talking about the weight box that goes on the 3pt? that would make the front end light
 

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As usual Grummy, you and I are pretty much on the exact same page. People not only have to understand mounting locations but they also need to understand material density.

One cubic foot of

Iridium = 1383 LBS

Platinum = 1342 LBS

Tungsten = 1224 LBS

24K Gold = 1204 LBS

Mercury = 849 LBS

Cast Lead = 708 LBS

Silver = 653 LBS

Copper = 556 LBS

Rolled Nickel = 541 LBS

Brass = 534 LBS

Rolled Steel = 495 LBS

Cast Iron = 450 LBS

Cast Zinc = 440 LBS

Arsenic = 354 LBS

Concrete = 148 LBS

Wet Sand = 130 LBS

Apples = 40 LBS

Powdered Chocolate = 40 LBS

Manure = 25 LBS



As you can see, I have compared APPLES to many other items. There is a reason why some of the items are referred to as "heavy metals" on the Stock Exchange and all of them beat Poured Concrete when it comes to making up really effective weights for your tractor. Of course, some of them are not practical........for obvious reasons. Powdered Chocolate will probably turn YOU into the counterweight eventually. And manure ain't worth s%it when it comes to choosing counterweight material.

The real point of this post is the following.

A weight made of concrete will be nearly FIVE TIMES the size of a weight made of cast lead or THREE AND ONE THIRD times the size of a weight made from rolled steel.

If you obtain either scrap lead or scrap steel from the metal recycler, you can keep your weight small in size. All of the Ag manufacturers chose Cast Iron or Rolled Steel for counterweight material for a reason.
 

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Boy, a guy could make a nice little weight with that Iridium, eh ?

It would just be fun to have a chunk on the workbench as a gag.... Hey buddy ! Grab me that little chunk of metal over there ! LOL !
 

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mikebramel said:
I am talking about the weight box that mounts to the frame, which doesnt come out as far as the 3pt lift arms. You are talking about the weight box that goes on the 3pt? that would make the front end light
Mike,
I guess the bottom line is to throw as much weight in your box as makes operation successful. Some of my blathering was simply headed towards the fact that we cant just throw around numbers of poundage that "works best". It depends on WHERE that poundage is put in relationship to that rear axle.

As I look at the factory weight box in photos (mine has a 3 point), it would appear that if you loaded the back edge with steel plate, it would be out the same distance as a centered chunk of steel mounted on a 3 point (like my 5" thick plate centered and positioned vertical on the lift arms).

Use Hydriv's chart of weights to find the best "medium" available to you. It's likely that a visit to a friendly scrap yard could yield the best possible options, as they could cut plate up to fit as you need it.
 

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grummy said:
Boy, a guy could make a nice little weight with that Iridium, eh ?

It would just be fun to have a chunk on the workbench as a gag.... Hey buddy ! Grab me that little chunk of metal over there ! LOL !
I made my 150 lb wheel weights a few years ago out of gold and they cost me about $72,000 each. Some people thought I was crazy at the time but now they're worth about $3.8 million each. I might sell one and replace my entire fleet with new Ingys! :sidelaugh:
 

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I was told that all the gold was in a bank in Beverly Hills in someone elses name!!! HaHa!!!
Actually, overweight is when ones weight exceeds the numbers on the chart on the doctors examination room wall!!!! :crazy:
One chart that I saw said "there is nothing worse than an unjolly overweight person"!!!!! :lol: Another said "tall and skinny people piss me off" !!!! :roll: These were of course talking charts!!!!! :grin:
Mad Mackie in Taxonnecticut :mrgreen: :mowlawn:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Im a bit lost here after all those great posts...
I have a hollow square weight box that I have filled with steel bearings and concrete, I'm guessing the weight is around 350 to 400 pounds and from what I've read so far, 1000 pounds is the maximum counter weight target (if needed).
This weekend, I dug out a 20x10 patio foundation, and moved fill (class 5 and sand) to rill the void) with the 644. There were a few rare moments when the front felt heavy with a full bucket, so I now feel comfortable that I can add a few more hundred pounds if needed.

Thanks so much!!!
 

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You could measure the width, height and depth of the weight box and figure out how much it holds in cubic feet.

Assuming for a moment that it is 2 cubic feet in size, bang on........then it would weigh 296 LBS if filled with just concrete PLUS the weight of the empty box.

If you added 1 cubic foot of ball bearings to 1 cubic foot of concrete to fill the box, then 495 X 80% =396 LBS of steel (allowing for the air space around the balls) plus 148 for the cubic foot of concrete would make your weight box come in at 544 LBS.


In the final analysis, what matters most is whether or not YOUR machine is getting enough traction to do the work you want it to do. There is no pressing need to construct a 1000 LB weight just because the machine is capable of handling that weight. If 500 LBS does the job, then you have all the weight you need. But if you find that you are spinning your tires, then that's a sign that you need more weight.
 
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