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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I was without a tractor for a total of 4 days LOL.

Actually, I'll end up selling this one as well because I want something a TAD nicer and one that starts with the number 4.

But...I think I got a great deal...$250
Does NOT run...but hopefully it will in short order.
Here's what she looks like (horrible garage nighttime pics):





About the tractor and it's lack of spark..

Here's what I KNOW.
The PO said that he replaced the solenoid thinking that was the problem (NO SPARK!)
Why the solenoid? No clue.
***I*** think it is more likely to be the coil.
BUT...he said that when they replaced the solenoid the IGNITION SWITCH never worked from that point on and that they were trying to JUMP it by grounding the solenoid.
Question: (and I don't know a TON about engines...learning in progress!) If the ignition switch is not working wouldn't that explain the lack of spark? Why would the PO replace the solenoid in attempting to gain spark? Isn't that to get the thing to CRANK?
So here's what I have: Hack wiring job. Not sure if Ignition switch is BAD or just wired incorrectly (more likely).
Only way tractor will crank is to jump the solenoid.
Here's a couple pics of wiring...anyone see anything obvious?
Any ideas?
Here's what the wiring looks like (notice the orange wire going NO WHERE!)



Any help tips/ideas greatly appreciated!
 

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Here's how you start.

Go to the Tech Library/Parts Manuals/Kohler Powered Tractors and use the PIN to locate the correct manual. Somewhere in between page 55 and 70 you will find a wiring pictorial.


You also need a TEST LiGHT. This looks like an AWL with a wire coming out of a clear handle and the wire has an alligator clip on the end of it.

Locate the FUSE and see if it is blown. Simple stuff first. Ground the test light's alligator clip to the negative post on the battery. Touch the probe end to the positive terminal to make sure the light inside the handle works. Turn the ignition switch to ON and then put the probe onto the POSITIVE marked + terminal of the coil. The light should come on if you have power reaching the coil. If you don't have power at the coil, then you need to expose the ignition switch to see what's going on there. Maybe the PO got his uneducated fingers in there and put the wrong wires on the wrong terminals. You need to determine which terminal is the B for battery terminal and make sure power is reaching the switch. The "I" terminal is for ignition and if the switch is working internally, then you will have power on that terminal when the key is turned to ON or Lights.

The problem with the "No Start" is likely down to safety switches. Could be broken wires, wires that have come off, bad switch or improper wiring.


And yes, it is a 224 providing you have a K-321 under the hood. The engine tag will tell you that.
 

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The first place to start is download the parts manual for the tractor according to the PIN. The second thing is make sure that solenoid is correct for the tractor, then use the wiring diagram in the parts manual to figure out where that loose wire goes. Trace out all the wiring, and make sure the safeties are working correctly. If needed, TEMPORARILY jump the safety switches to get you running after making absolutely sure the travel control lever is centered and the transaxle is in neutral. Also make sure the PTO is disengaged. Get past that point and keep us informed, somebody will be able to walk you thru the needed steps. Don't just go replacing stuff until you check it out. That just makes the parts people happy. Nice tractor by the way! :thumbup: Looks like Hydriv beat me to the punch while I was typing!
 

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Is the solenoid stuck to the oil tank? :lol: :lol:

Do what Tom says and go from there. If you look at the diagram carefully you can figure out how to temporarily bypass the safety switches in order to test them.
 

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:coolphotos:

Ditto about the comments above regarding download the proper wiring guide and following that, as well as getting a good deal... I notice a lot of electrical tape... spend $20 and get a a couple feet of black, white, yellow, and red wire and fix this once and for all...if not for you, for when you sell it... you'll easily make that 20 bucks back when you get it running....

At first glance, the thing that jumps out is that it appears that the solenoid is that the solenoid is attached the black hydraulic resovoir...is this what they did, drill holes in this tank, or is it just "resting" there? For the experts- does this style of solenoid need to be grounded and attached to metal for it to work properly?

Jason
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Anyone have a pic handy of where the Solenoid is SUPPOSED to be mounted?
And... Anyone know the correct part # for the solenoid? I asked PO if that was correct Solenoid and he said "YES, we tried a different one at 1st then we got this one"
Hmmmmmmmmmm

Anyway...

at 1st glance it appears that orange wire to no where goes to the meter.


I'm going to print out the wiring page, and... take it from there. 1st thing I'll do is make sure it's wired correctly (its NOT!), then try to find the reason it quit on the PO in the 1st place. My guess is Coil.
We'll see.

Thanks for the tips so far. I'll grab a Test Meter this morning too...always knew I would need one eventually.
 

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Snotrocket said:
Is the solenoid stuck to the oil tank? :lol: :lol:

Do what Tom says and go from there. If you look at the diagram carefully you can figure out how to temporarily bypass the safety switches in order to test them.
I was thinking the same thing! Not sure what compelled someone to move it from the heat shield to the hydraulic oil tank :headscratcher:

Creekhead, as wurkenman noted, the solenoid should be mounted on the metal heat shield directly in front of the hydraulic oil tank. There are already holes drilled in the shield where the solenoid should be mounted. Good find for $250!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
THANKS!

I'm trying to look up the correct manual...but the ID tag on the tractor said
14022984

When I go to fectch the diagram...it gives choices for

SERVICE MANUALS FOR LAWN TRACTORS

Electrical System 107 and 117 Manual 9-99762




Electrical System 108 and 118 Manual 9-50221

etc etc...
Why does my 224 ID differ so greatly from the numbers listed?
(if its obvious go easy!!!hahahhaa)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I'm gueassing that I need this one?
Electrical System 210, 220, 222, 224, 444 and 644 with starter/alternator Manual 9-51171
This is for tractors "with Alternator"...

The choices for "With generator" sound older than my tractor.

Am I heading in the right direction?
 

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I have said this many, many times in the past.

If you buy a new-to-you tractor, the FIRST TWO things you need are the correct Parts Manual and the correct Operator's Manual. You should know this by now. :lol: Wake up. You're not a virgin any more. :sidelaugh:

Here is a link to the Parts Manual. It's a large file so be patient. It takes some time to download.

http://www.manuals.casecoltingersoll.co ... marked.pdf

Look on pages 64 and 66. Depending upon the PIN of your tractor, one of those pictorials is correct. This is WHY having the Parts Manual is important.

In the Service Manuals/Electrical section of the Tech Library...... this manual also covers your tractor but in a GENERAL way. The Parts Manual is specific. Your wiring diagram is on Page 5.

http://www.manuals.casecoltingersoll.co ... marked.pdf

Members who do not heed this advice, end up having their tractors confiscated by the tractor police. :sidelaugh:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
THANKS!!!!

I am NOT good at wiring... that is to say, I have NO experience with it.

The PO has the wired mismatched. I hop to find a decent diagram that shows the correct way to wire the IGNITION SWITCH AND THE SOLENOID.

Once I get the correct wires to the correct poles, I can actually start tracing where the problem is. UGH

Thanks again for all the tips!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
9752340 represents Case 224 serial number.
If my serial is 14022984 would I be correct in assuming that they ran out of numbers after 9 and went up to 14?

So my tractor is newer than all of these 9 series numbers...correct?

This is BUGGING ME!

AND... I can't seem to find the correct way to wire the Solenoid! All of the pics are NOT CLEAR as to how the sucker gets wired!!!

Anyone have a decent photo or diagram showing WHAT WIRE GOES WHERE on the Solenoid itself?
I DO see how the IGN switch is wired through the diagram...so at least I have that covered. BUT the Solenoid has 4 poles... 2 large and 2 small. These is A LOT of ways to wire it WRONG.

Sorry of I am driving ya'll NUTS!
 

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When Ingersoll truly took over, they started their own numbering system. The chart in the FAQ's shows you what happened and when.


Yes..... your tractor is newer than the ones with PINs that begin with 9.


The wiring to the solenoid is not as tough as you think it is.

A solenoid is nothing more than a heavy duty switch that is remotely controlled by the key switch and the safety switches.


Because starter motors draw heavy current that would fry the ignition switch, the large cable from the Positive terminal of the battery goes to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. IT DOES NOT MATTER which one. The large cable coming from the starter motor goes to the OTHER large terminal on the solenoid. Inside the solenoid is a large copper washer. When the solenoid is actuated, the copper washer bridges the two large lug terminals of the solenoid and that allows heavy current to reach the starter motor. Clear?


The two small terminals on the solenoid are connected to a coil of wire inside that..... when power is applied..... creates a strong magnetic field that causes the copper washer to slam up against the bottoms of the big lug terminals. Once again, there is no right or wrong way with this terminals because they are not sensitive to polarity like a coil is. There are no positive or negative markings on the solenoid's small terminals.

If you look at the back of the ignition switch, you will see that there are four terminals that stick out so that wires can be connected to them. One terminal is marked B for Battery. Another one is marked "I" for ignition. Another one is marked "S" for Start and the last one is marked "L" for lights.

So...... if you find the FUSE, the wire leaving the one end of the fuse goes to the B terminal on the ignition switch.

The S terminal goes to one of the small terminals on the solenoid.

The I terminal goes to the + terminal on the coil.

The L terminal goes to the lights.


In order for the solenoid to function, there are TWO safety switches that either allow the solenoid's other terminal to be grounded or not. One switch is on the PTO LEVER and the other is the NEUTRAL SAFETY SWITCH that is found below the dashboard, just above the travel lever. In the parts manual, the NSS is item 11 and the PTO switch is item 21. You need to find the black wire that is connected to the PTO switch and connect it to the other small terminal on the solenoid. IF both switches are working correctly and the wires are not damaged or disconnected, then the solenoid will work when the key is turned to START.

There is one more wire that needs to be hooked up. This wire comes from one side of the ammeter and has a large ring-type terminal on the end of it that allows it to fit onto the large terminal on the solenoid where the positive lead from the battery is connected. This lead supplies power to the tractor through the ammeter and the ammeter notes whether you are in a state of charge or discharge.

Any more questions?


BTW. You can't drive me nuts. I was already there from being a member on other forums. :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh:
 
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