Educate me please....
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The black painted frame indicated a special promotion be it a demonstrator unit or an anniversary edition.
On Ingersoll units the black frame is and has been for about 10 years just a different paint scheme.
Bob MacGregor in CT :446: :mowlawn:
On Ingersoll units the black frame is and has been for about 10 years just a different paint scheme.
Bob MacGregor in CT :446: :mowlawn:
No one knows for an absolute certainty as to why the traditional Power Red/Power White colour scheme abruptly changed sometime in 1983 and continued to the end of the 1984 production year.
We can speculate that there was pressure from Racine (Case headquarters) on Bill Shlapman at the Winneconne plant to change the paint scheme thanks to Case buying out International Harvester's failing agricultural division. Whether there is any truth to that remains to be proven.
We do know that the Black Frame tractors were short-lived and anything that is short-lived means that it will eventually become highly collectible. I have been banging that drum now for several years and apparently some people are beginning to take notice. The Black Frame tractors all came with a white seat to set them apart. In addition, all of the correct attachments for this time frame were painted Power White. Decks, snow blowers, plow blades, rototillers, log splitters etc. Interestingly, the options such as hitches, rear PTO's, holding valves and Flow Control Valves were painted a matching black.
As time moves on, more and more of the Black Frame models will disappear forever, due to being junked, parted out or other tragic mishap. The remaining ones will become more and more prized as a collectible. These were all CASE tractors, not Ingersoll. Yes, Jack Ingersoll bought the division from Case right at this time but make no mistake. Jack just continued to make CASE tractors for CASE until 1987 when the Ingersoll name appeared on the tractors all by itself.
Right now, no one is putting any special emphasis on the Black Frame models except for me. Some people dislike this colour scheme while others love it. But no one is asking a premium price because their tractor is a Black Frame 1983 opposed to a Red Frame 83. In my opinion, that will change in the next 10 years. Watch, wait and see. History has a tendency to repeat itself. No one wanted anything to do with the JD Custom Color Series (Patio) tractors for the longest time and now today, a pristine seat alone for one of these models will bring up to $1000.00 due to its rarity.
We can speculate that there was pressure from Racine (Case headquarters) on Bill Shlapman at the Winneconne plant to change the paint scheme thanks to Case buying out International Harvester's failing agricultural division. Whether there is any truth to that remains to be proven.
We do know that the Black Frame tractors were short-lived and anything that is short-lived means that it will eventually become highly collectible. I have been banging that drum now for several years and apparently some people are beginning to take notice. The Black Frame tractors all came with a white seat to set them apart. In addition, all of the correct attachments for this time frame were painted Power White. Decks, snow blowers, plow blades, rototillers, log splitters etc. Interestingly, the options such as hitches, rear PTO's, holding valves and Flow Control Valves were painted a matching black.
As time moves on, more and more of the Black Frame models will disappear forever, due to being junked, parted out or other tragic mishap. The remaining ones will become more and more prized as a collectible. These were all CASE tractors, not Ingersoll. Yes, Jack Ingersoll bought the division from Case right at this time but make no mistake. Jack just continued to make CASE tractors for CASE until 1987 when the Ingersoll name appeared on the tractors all by itself.
Right now, no one is putting any special emphasis on the Black Frame models except for me. Some people dislike this colour scheme while others love it. But no one is asking a premium price because their tractor is a Black Frame 1983 opposed to a Red Frame 83. In my opinion, that will change in the next 10 years. Watch, wait and see. History has a tendency to repeat itself. No one wanted anything to do with the JD Custom Color Series (Patio) tractors for the longest time and now today, a pristine seat alone for one of these models will bring up to $1000.00 due to its rarity.
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Me too..........geeco1 said:
I'm glad you asked because I was wondering about that paint scheme myself.
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I have a lead on one of these "black frame" tractors :clap: The serial number indicates mid 1983...its a 446. Is there any way to tell if this thing is real or fake? The decals and the power red paint is original...the black is original some places and repainted in others....wheels are white as is the seat.The deck,caster and blade are all power red, which makes me wonder! :think:Hydriv said:
What we do know for sure, is that the Winneconne plant would stop the production of tractors at some point in the year and then set things up for the production of the tractors for the following year. Ford , GM and Chrysler used to do this near the end of summer but i've never heard a report about what date this happened at Winneconne. Several owners have reported having traditional red/white tractors with serial numbers that fall into the 1983 model year. This is perfectly understandable considering that 1983 tractors began being produced in late 1982. Some owners of Black Frame tractors report that their serial number also falls into the 1983 model year and so that information......as confusing as it might be..........tells us that there are 1983 Black Frame models in existence as well as 1984 Black Frame models.
What is even more annoying to all of us who are trying to get a better understanding of what actually happened at Winneconne from year to year is that Case (unlike the auto manufacturers) apparently did not produce a brand new Case Planning Guide (sales brochure) for every single year. There is a Planning Guide that does show the Black Frame models and it was presumably issued for the 1984 model year.
As for the tractor you are looking at.......................I highly doubt that anyone would be deliberately trying to create a Black Frame model in order to fool a Buyer. As I said before, I believe that I am the only one who is placing any emphasis on the Case-made Black Frame models. In other words, if you are not a member of this forum or MTF, then you will not have read anything about me emphasizing the importance of the Black Frame tractors. There is more involved than just the frame. Pretend for a second that you are looking at a complete tractor. Remove the hood, the fenders and the pedestal that supports the seat as well as all four tires/rims. Those items will all be Power Red except for the Power White rims. The rest of the tractor will be black. Frame, axles and all parts underneath are black.
They all came with white naugahyde seats but the UV rays and hot/cold temps often cause cracks and splits to take place and black seats end up on these tractors eventually. You should also be aware that dealers bought the tractors as a separate item. They came down the assembly line as a basis tractor with NO attachments whatsoever. After testing, they were crated up as a basic tractor and shipped to the regional distributors. They were supposed to be sold with Power White attachments but Case could not prevent dealers from delivering them with Power Red attachments nor could they control what the customer wanted.
As I said before........ these were troubling times for the dealers because they had no idea what was happening with the outdoor equipment. No dealer in their right mind is going to order in a Power White attachment if he's already got several Power Red attachments sitting in his inventory. Based on the fact that the tractor you are looking at has the white seat, I'd say that it is a bona fide Black Frame tractor. Just look underneath. If everything is painted black and there's not a sign of Power Red...then it's the real deal.
What is even more annoying to all of us who are trying to get a better understanding of what actually happened at Winneconne from year to year is that Case (unlike the auto manufacturers) apparently did not produce a brand new Case Planning Guide (sales brochure) for every single year. There is a Planning Guide that does show the Black Frame models and it was presumably issued for the 1984 model year.
As for the tractor you are looking at.......................I highly doubt that anyone would be deliberately trying to create a Black Frame model in order to fool a Buyer. As I said before, I believe that I am the only one who is placing any emphasis on the Case-made Black Frame models. In other words, if you are not a member of this forum or MTF, then you will not have read anything about me emphasizing the importance of the Black Frame tractors. There is more involved than just the frame. Pretend for a second that you are looking at a complete tractor. Remove the hood, the fenders and the pedestal that supports the seat as well as all four tires/rims. Those items will all be Power Red except for the Power White rims. The rest of the tractor will be black. Frame, axles and all parts underneath are black.
They all came with white naugahyde seats but the UV rays and hot/cold temps often cause cracks and splits to take place and black seats end up on these tractors eventually. You should also be aware that dealers bought the tractors as a separate item. They came down the assembly line as a basis tractor with NO attachments whatsoever. After testing, they were crated up as a basic tractor and shipped to the regional distributors. They were supposed to be sold with Power White attachments but Case could not prevent dealers from delivering them with Power Red attachments nor could they control what the customer wanted.
As I said before........ these were troubling times for the dealers because they had no idea what was happening with the outdoor equipment. No dealer in their right mind is going to order in a Power White attachment if he's already got several Power Red attachments sitting in his inventory. Based on the fact that the tractor you are looking at has the white seat, I'd say that it is a bona fide Black Frame tractor. Just look underneath. If everything is painted black and there's not a sign of Power Red...then it's the real deal.
OK..... so someone decided at some point that a Holding Valve would be nice to have and added one. If the tractor had been ordered with an HV, then it would have been black but if a dealer pulled a HV kit out of his inventory or ordered one in from the local distributor, then it would have been Power Red.
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