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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently took the front axle off the 446 to repair the pivot pin, built the pin up with weld and ground it to proper size.Reinstalled the axle and there was still some movement sideways, so I took black nylon and cut two pieces to fit into the back side of the axle web,one each side of the pivot point. The movement back and forth now is so minimal and the ease of steering has improved greatly. The nylon blocks are flush with the frame and are hardly noticeable. With a grease job to the front end it works just great. How long the nylon blocks last before they need to be replaced ,time will tell. Oldfrank.
 

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Pictures would be great......Nylon would have to be around a 1/16th inch thick wouldn't it that is if I am picturing it right. I wonder how long that would last myself. Mine is loose too but I wonder if a thin layer of metal would work out better? There seems to be a lot of pressure on that pivot pin only no wonder it wears out. I think there are to big of a gap between the axle and the two braces. I have read about milling out the axle and putting a bushing in there but that still would not eliminate the slack of the axle between braces. Maybe it was tighter from the factory and they are worn. Milling it out would definitely tighten it up. These tractors are 30 plus years old and they will wear. I just wish there was an easier fix. What have some of you guys done to fix this?

Brad
 

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If the frame is spread wider than the axle, right at the pivot pin location, there is an easy remedy. This can appear to be axle casting wear, but is equally likely that the vertical plates through which the pin is inserted have actually moved/deformed.

Caution ... you don't want to overtighten the frame here, since it is WAY easier to make it tighter than to subsequently loosen it.

With the pivot pin removed, run a large bolt/washer through the hole ... I use a 3/4" with about a 2" heavy washer. Run a nut down on the bolt until it bends those 2 verticals on the frame just back to the dimension of your axle thickness ... assemble with a good pivot pin and suddenly the axle is tight in the frame again.

Brian
 

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brad said:
Pictures would be great......Nylon would have to be around a 1/16th inch thick wouldn't it that is if I am picturing it right. I wonder how long that would last myself. Mine is loose too but I wonder if a thin layer of metal would work out better? There seems to be a lot of pressure on that pivot pin only no wonder it wears out. I think there are to big of a gap between the axle and the two braces. I have read about milling out the axle and putting a bushing in there but that still would not eliminate the slack of the axle between braces. Maybe it was tighter from the factory and they are worn. Milling it out would definitely tighten it up. These tractors are 30 plus years old and they will wear. I just wish there was an easier fix. What have some of you guys done to fix this?

Brad
All Ive ever done is cut a couple squares of steel, Drill a 1/2" hole center. Takes about a 1/2" x 4" bolt, Assemble this threw the king pin hole in the tractor frame, And drew it back square, Be sure not to draw it to far, Go alittle and check it. Works for me.

kubotakid :usa2:
.........................Looks like brian got it covered..
 

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Gregg had mentioned to me about how they spread a bit and I had planned on doing this to mine but I have one question:

Do they "spring back" at all when you release the bolt?

Seems to me the most precise way would be tighten, try, tighten, try, until it's perfect. But that's a lot of work. If I were to get an exact measurement off the axle, should I tighten up to exactly that size, or go a little more to allow for spring back? If so, how much more?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hello Boys, when I did this mod way back in Sept. I didn't see the real problem. The I beam had a cork screw twist to it. Removed I beam ,clamped it to the welding bench and straightened it with heat {oxy/ acyl} , and it went back to the original shape. However the holes for the pivot pin and flat bar cross members where also cork screwed. I got everything to work fine and the Nylon blocks really helped to removed the extra slop. The correct fix is to make new flat bar cross members and new front axle { $ $ $ & lots of hours }.

The nylon blocks are aprox. 1'' x 1'' x 4'' long .

the PO must have been doing 30 mph ,down hill , with a cart full of crap and dropped the wheel into a gofer hole.

The problem does not excise anymore for I have built a new axle system .


have a good one ---oldfrank--- :canada:
 

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Bill.H said:
Gregg had mentioned to me about how they spread a bit and I had planned on doing this to mine but I have one question:

Do they "spring back" at all when you release the bolt?

Seems to me the most precise way would be tighten, try, tighten, try, until it's perfect. But that's a lot of work. If I were to get an exact measurement off the axle, should I tighten up to exactly that size, or go a little more to allow for spring back? If so, how much more?
There is a wee bit of spring back, as with any time you move metal. But of course there is also the need for a wee bit of clearance. I've had good success with squeezing to the axle thickness, then checking the spring back / gap produced. Then one more shot with calipers to overset it just the amount I want under bolt load, with spring back getting down in the 1/32" range.

Does take some patience and annoying if you have to spread it back out ... but spreading can be done by reversing the stack with washers and 2 nuts on the bolt, inside the axle space. Then you have to spread the nuts a bit from one another. Way more awkward than pinching it closed.

Brian
 

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I fixed it today and it worked out really well. I just wonder how long it will last? It would be nice if the pivot pin was threaded on one side with a big nut on it so you could keep it pretty snug....it would never come loose. The nut having those little grooves notched in it held in place with a cotter pin of some type. Now that would be a permanant fix and if it ever loosened up you could take the cotter pin out out tighten the nut a little and put the cotter pin back in. Someone needs to make some of these and sell them.....I would buy one if they were priced reasonable.

Brad
 

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kubotakid said:
brad said:
Pictures would be great......Nylon would have to be around a 1/16th inch thick wouldn't it that is if I am picturing it right. I wonder how long that would last myself. Mine is loose too but I wonder if a thin layer of metal would work out better? There seems to be a lot of pressure on that pivot pin only no wonder it wears out. I think there are to big of a gap between the axle and the two braces. I have read about milling out the axle and putting a bushing in there but that still would not eliminate the slack of the axle between braces. Maybe it was tighter from the factory and they are worn. Milling it out would definitely tighten it up. These tractors are 30 plus years old and they will wear. I just wish there was an easier fix. What have some of you guys done to fix this?

Brad
All Ive ever done is cut a couple squares of steel, Drill a 1/2" hole center. Takes about a 1/2" x 4" bolt, Assemble this threw the king pin hole in the tractor frame, And drew it back square, Be sure not to draw it to far, Go alittle and check it. Works for me.

kubotakid :usa2:
.........................Looks like brian got it covered..
The axle pin is hollow, right? Any reason you couldn't run the bolt through the center of the axle pin and cinch the whole thing up while it's installed? (And just leave it that way...)?

Bob
 

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brad said:
I fixed it today and it worked out really well. I just wonder how long it will last? It would be nice if the pivot pin was threaded on one side with a big nut on it so you could keep it pretty snug....it would never come loose. The nut having those little grooves notched in it held in place with a cotter pin of some type. Now that would be a permanant fix and if it ever loosened up you could take the cotter pin out out tighten the nut a little and put the cotter pin back in. Someone needs to make some of these and sell them.....I would buy one if they were priced reasonable.
:thumbsup: I've thought about that. With a good lathe it would be relatively simple. But I don't have one. :sad: Basically a short fat fine threaded bolt with a groove cut in it. Take/make a nut of appropriate size and put a notch in it to create a castle nut. With fine threads you would only need a single notch and maybe 3 1/8" holes spaced around the pin for securing with either a cotter or roll pin.

I considered trying it with an iron pipe nipple but gave that idea up as both probably not strong enough and not worth the trouble because of the grease groove needed.

bobneumann said:
The axle pin is hollow, right? Any reason you couldn't run the bolt through the center of the axle pin and cinch the whole thing up while it's installed? (And just leave it that way...)?
The pin sticks out on both ends, you'd have to rig up some really heavy pieces shaped like short U's to avoid trying -futilely - to compress the pin lengthwise.
 

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The grease groove is not in the pin but in the axle so I think it is still a project worth looking in to. I just tightened my front end up but I know it will loosen up with time. It made a huge difference for me. If a person made a bolt style pivot pin it would keep the two plates from spreading. I don't have the equipment to make one but it would mostly solve the issues with these front ends. I think what wears these pins out is the wiggle room of the axle and of coarse 30 plus years of use. A replacement pivot pin alone cost $27 for a new one if I remember right. If someone with a machine shop made some and sold them for a reasonable price I think a lot of guys might buy one for their tractor since they are not only getting a replacement pivot pin but a way of permanantly keeping the two plates tight to the axle doing away with the extra wiggle room in the steering wheel. I am not a machine shop guy but this could be a whole lot more work than what is being addressed here and not worth it but I love the idea.

Brad
 

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I always appreciate the ingenuity of the board members ... perhaps the mod described would be successful.

I do wonder though ... this isn't like an annual maintenance problem ... really. What exactly is the ingenuity trying to solve and at what extent and possible unintended consequences?

I've performed this procedure on 30 year old tractors, but not seen a less than 15 year old tractor that wanted it ... (one exception of a unit with very oddly frozen front spindles and power steering that is strong enough to spread those plates in a couple of hours usage). Sure I don't have 15 years history on those repaired ones, but I suspect Bob Myer and Tom Hanson may have done this repair in the mid-90's on tractors from the mid-70's ...

I would stick with a 10-20 year maintenance procedure as required ...

Brian
 

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Bill.H said:
brad said:
I fixed it today and it worked out really well. I just wonder how long it will last? It would be nice if the pivot pin was threaded on one side with a big nut on it so you could keep it pretty snug....it would never come loose. The nut having those little grooves notched in it held in place with a cotter pin of some type. Now that would be a permanant fix and if it ever loosened up you could take the cotter pin out out tighten the nut a little and put the cotter pin back in. Someone needs to make some of these and sell them.....I would buy one if they were priced reasonable.
:thumbsup: I've thought about that. With a good lathe it would be relatively simple. But I don't have one. :sad: Basically a short fat fine threaded bolt with a groove cut in it. Take/make a nut of appropriate size and put a notch in it to create a castle nut. With fine threads you would only need a single notch and maybe 3 1/8" holes spaced around the pin for securing with either a cotter or roll pin.

I considered trying it with an iron pipe nipple but gave that idea up as both probably not strong enough and not worth the trouble because of the grease groove needed.

bobneumann said:
The axle pin is hollow, right? Any reason you couldn't run the bolt through the center of the axle pin and cinch the whole thing up while it's installed? (And just leave it that way...)?
The pin sticks out on both ends, you'd have to rig up some really heavy pieces shaped like short U's to avoid trying -futilely - to compress the pin lengthwise.
I haven't looked to see if there is room at both ends of the pin, but a 2" pipe cap drilled for 1/2" allthread would work. If there's room.

Bob
 

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Bob,

That is strange....I was thinking the same thing trying to simplify the modification but yea....depending on how far the pivot pin is sticking out I might be able to put a two inch cap on each side with a 1/2 or 3/4 inch hole and just put the bolt strait through the pin. We are looking at a $10 fix here with no special tools or equipment.

Brad
 

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I,.Really like the bolt Idea,. But I think you only have about 1/2" of clearence between the axle flange and the PTO belt, So you would need to trim the head down, Either an abrasive cutoff saw or a grinder would work fine. I dont have a clutch on my tractor rite now so maybe someone can check that out, I Think the snowcaster mule pully arrangment brings the belts tighter than the mower mule because the driven pully is verticle.

If I remember correctly the drivers side of the belt comes almost straight over the axle pin on a snowcaster mule.

kubotakid :usa2:
 

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A U shaped bracket that would install under the axle and clamp on to the outside of the axle mounts would also do the trick and not interfere with any belts. Mine was also bent out of wack a little bit. I straightened it out some but I was aftraid to bend it too far to straighten it back to stock so after I got it as close as I dared I found a washer to insert between the axle and the mount to clean up the rest of the slop. Now to straighten my bent axle...
 
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