Front loader
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2,052 Posts
Ken, the 3000 series tractors were NOT designed to have a front end loader attached to them. Case/Ingersoll made the 600 and 7000 series tractors which were a lot stronger to handle the added weight and stress of the loader and its contents. You will find a few owners who have fabricated their own front end loader (FEL) on their 400/4000 series machines but there is a LOT of work that needs to be done to do the job properly. I would not suggest it on 400/4000 series let alone a 200/3000 series machine.
I agree with CASE 220/4 that the garden tractors were not designed for front-end loader work.
However.... the fact remains that aftermarket companies did make loaders for Case GT's since 1965. One such company is Kwikway.
http://www.kwmanufacturing.com/
I would expect that the cost for their loader will be in the $3000.00 range.
That is why many owners opt for making their own loader. Suitable engineered plans are available on the internet for a small fee from this company, as an example.
http://www.cadplans.com/index.htm
Everything you would need to build your own loader could be sourced locally. If you were not comfortable with doing the welding, then a local shop could be hired for that work. Any advice you would need regarding the connecting of the hydraulics could be found here on this forum.
However.... the fact remains that aftermarket companies did make loaders for Case GT's since 1965. One such company is Kwikway.
http://www.kwmanufacturing.com/
I would expect that the cost for their loader will be in the $3000.00 range.
That is why many owners opt for making their own loader. Suitable engineered plans are available on the internet for a small fee from this company, as an example.
http://www.cadplans.com/index.htm
Everything you would need to build your own loader could be sourced locally. If you were not comfortable with doing the welding, then a local shop could be hired for that work. Any advice you would need regarding the connecting of the hydraulics could be found here on this forum.
KW has a loader that is purpose built for the 4200 series Ingersoll. It might fit a 3021. Good machine and well integrated to the tractor when applied.
However ... as I understand, due to front spindle failures, Ingersoll pulled the release of it from their direct dealer line. Bottom line, the hydraulics and the ruggedness of the tractor can lift a LOT more than the front wheels/spindles can handle. Common problem with owner installed front loaders.
Oh ... and operating it is a real handful with the hand operated travel control lever ... the 4200 series has foot operated travel speed.
Brian
However ... as I understand, due to front spindle failures, Ingersoll pulled the release of it from their direct dealer line. Bottom line, the hydraulics and the ruggedness of the tractor can lift a LOT more than the front wheels/spindles can handle. Common problem with owner installed front loaders.
Oh ... and operating it is a real handful with the hand operated travel control lever ... the 4200 series has foot operated travel speed.
Brian
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574 Posts
There is a photo of a 3000 series Ingersoll with a loader and a back hoe on this site, towards the bottom of the page: http://www.loaderandbackhoepics2.50megs.com/photo.html Can't say how well this works, but it is possible to mount one on your tractor. Note that the machine in the photo has upgraded front wheel spindles and wheels for more strength.
Paul
Paul
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1 Posts
Ken I just built a loader for a 1971 220 it works great. Everything has it's limits.I have seen 580's break loader arms.I just sold a Wheel Horse D160 with factory loader that was tough to get use to. Go to PF Engineering look at that site.
Tom.
Tom.
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8,018 Posts
Kenneth: I am just thinking that you may take away from the other things you may want to do with the tractor, mowing and pushing snow? I know there are some nice conversions out there, but having recently acquired a loader I see the big difference vs. my garden tractor. Lot more beef to the loader. Also does your tractor have a foot pedal? Just my thoughts, I know you have a limited market for additional tractors, so I gather the solution can't be to buy a 600 series. It is frequently recommended around here for members to buy more tractors so they don't have to change attachments! :thumbsup: :sidelaugh:
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
Rich,
It never snows in Denmark. Danish women are so hot, the snow falls elsewhere. :thumbsup: Perhaps I need to send you some "Danish Pastry" to examine. :sidelaugh:
Ken.... Rich does make a point. Tractors with loaders on them are not fun when used as grass cutting machines while the loader is there, getting in your way. However, it is possible to build a loader that is easy to detach from the tractor. That way....you only put it on the tractor whenever loader work is required.
It never snows in Denmark. Danish women are so hot, the snow falls elsewhere. :thumbsup: Perhaps I need to send you some "Danish Pastry" to examine. :sidelaugh:
Ken.... Rich does make a point. Tractors with loaders on them are not fun when used as grass cutting machines while the loader is there, getting in your way. However, it is possible to build a loader that is easy to detach from the tractor. That way....you only put it on the tractor whenever loader work is required.
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62 Posts
ListiDK,
I bought a 448 with the intention of making or buying a FEL for it. After market companies like Kwikway and Nortrac sell loaders starting around $4000. At that price, I didn't look at what the tractor specific subframe might cost. A creative person has more options if he/she has the tools (not meant to be funny.) As I chose to design a loader myself, I got lucky and $1500 poorer by finding a Johnson Workhorse Model (12 ?) off a JD. The advice offered by the knowledgable members on previous posts is an excellent starting point to give you an idea of just how much work is involved. PF Engineering can sell you plans. I do not know if they include the proper mounts (subframe.) Upgraded spindles/wheels/tires and what to do about the hydraulics will leave you pulling hairs. I started a thread on another forum called MTF or MyTractorForum.com.
The title for the post is "Johnson Workhorse loader. How much is too much?" Here is the link.
http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=194752
received a great deal of help and advice about some of the trickier modifications. One guy actually designed and built his own loader for a 200 series. Check out the thread and if you have more questions, send me a PM. If you have the money and patience, look for a used 600, 6000 or 7000 series tractor. AHHHHHH, sometimes MONEY does make life easier. I wouldn't know, though. I am too busy finding solutions for my problems. In THAT department, I am a very rich man - problems. Did you find CCI member "grummy" discussion on the merits of a FEL on a Case GT? I stink at linking, sorry. Sound advice.
Finding an old Johnson loader is tuff. Used after market, too. I got lucky and poorer. There was a sweet 7020 on E-bay for around 4 grand.
Good luck with your project,
Mike
PS. Denmark? Really? I spent all that time writing and ....... Make your own ! Write to the guy with the 200 series w/loader avatar. He really did his homework. Viel Glueck mit ihrem wuensch. Es tut mir leid, ich bin besser auf Deutsch.
I bought a 448 with the intention of making or buying a FEL for it. After market companies like Kwikway and Nortrac sell loaders starting around $4000. At that price, I didn't look at what the tractor specific subframe might cost. A creative person has more options if he/she has the tools (not meant to be funny.) As I chose to design a loader myself, I got lucky and $1500 poorer by finding a Johnson Workhorse Model (12 ?) off a JD. The advice offered by the knowledgable members on previous posts is an excellent starting point to give you an idea of just how much work is involved. PF Engineering can sell you plans. I do not know if they include the proper mounts (subframe.) Upgraded spindles/wheels/tires and what to do about the hydraulics will leave you pulling hairs. I started a thread on another forum called MTF or MyTractorForum.com.
The title for the post is "Johnson Workhorse loader. How much is too much?" Here is the link.
http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=194752
received a great deal of help and advice about some of the trickier modifications. One guy actually designed and built his own loader for a 200 series. Check out the thread and if you have more questions, send me a PM. If you have the money and patience, look for a used 600, 6000 or 7000 series tractor. AHHHHHH, sometimes MONEY does make life easier. I wouldn't know, though. I am too busy finding solutions for my problems. In THAT department, I am a very rich man - problems. Did you find CCI member "grummy" discussion on the merits of a FEL on a Case GT? I stink at linking, sorry. Sound advice.
Finding an old Johnson loader is tuff. Used after market, too. I got lucky and poorer. There was a sweet 7020 on E-bay for around 4 grand.
Good luck with your project,
Mike
PS. Denmark? Really? I spent all that time writing and ....... Make your own ! Write to the guy with the 200 series w/loader avatar. He really did his homework. Viel Glueck mit ihrem wuensch. Es tut mir leid, ich bin besser auf Deutsch.
mblust,
I edited your above post. On this forum, members are free to openly mention other sites and link to those sites and to threads within those sites. On this forum, we are here to help our membership by providing information that we believe may be of use. Therefore, I also added a link to the thread on MTF that you were referring to.
Moving now to the discussion in that thread. :sidelaugh:
The MTF site is currently populated by only three or four members who have any clue about anything that has to do with Colt, Case or Ingersoll tractors.
Jayveee43 is not one of them.
Jayvee43's loader is what most people who know loader design would consider to be ridiculous. His use of an offset single bucket cylinder is something that no other loader manufacturer has ever employed in the entire history of front-end loaders. JV prides himself on NOT following the tried and true methods that 1000's of engineers in the past have found to work best. His homemade loader is something I would never point to as an example of how to build one.
RMC is another member on MTF who constantly gives out advice but more often than not, hasn't got a clue about the topic nor does he have any practical experience. He just like to post so that others think that he's clever. There were some people in that thread that do know their stuff. One is TUDOR and the other is Nutcase446 who got into a discussion about hydraulics. Both are members of this forum and we are happy to have them here. TUDOR (Bob) has vast knowledge about hydraulics however he readily admits to the fact that he has not had hands-on experience with they hydraulic system used in Case and Ingersoll tractors. Nutcase446 has a lot of hands-on experience with these tractors as do antiqueetc, CP7, Wattonyooper and [email protected]
CP7, Wattonyooper and [email protected] are also members of this site and have my respect. antiqueetc is an advisor on this site as is Grummy.
Kenneth lives in Denmark and the likelihood of him finding a 600 Series anywhere in that country is somewhere between slim and none. The same holds true with finding a used Johnson or KW loader suitable for a GT. As you pointed out, his best option would be to purchase plans from one of the two companies already mentioned in this thread and construct his own. He can correspond via e-mail with either of them on issues concerning the mounting issues of the loader to the tractor. IF Kenneth is thinking of adding a backhoe, then the company should be told that from the outset. Backhoes work best when they are mounted on a sub-frame that will distribute the load throughout the tractor instead of concentrating it in one spot.
As you already found out, adding an FEL to a Case GT is not as simple as it looks on the outside but it can be done with proper advance planning.
I edited your above post. On this forum, members are free to openly mention other sites and link to those sites and to threads within those sites. On this forum, we are here to help our membership by providing information that we believe may be of use. Therefore, I also added a link to the thread on MTF that you were referring to.
Moving now to the discussion in that thread. :sidelaugh:
The MTF site is currently populated by only three or four members who have any clue about anything that has to do with Colt, Case or Ingersoll tractors.
Jayveee43 is not one of them.
Jayvee43's loader is what most people who know loader design would consider to be ridiculous. His use of an offset single bucket cylinder is something that no other loader manufacturer has ever employed in the entire history of front-end loaders. JV prides himself on NOT following the tried and true methods that 1000's of engineers in the past have found to work best. His homemade loader is something I would never point to as an example of how to build one.
RMC is another member on MTF who constantly gives out advice but more often than not, hasn't got a clue about the topic nor does he have any practical experience. He just like to post so that others think that he's clever. There were some people in that thread that do know their stuff. One is TUDOR and the other is Nutcase446 who got into a discussion about hydraulics. Both are members of this forum and we are happy to have them here. TUDOR (Bob) has vast knowledge about hydraulics however he readily admits to the fact that he has not had hands-on experience with they hydraulic system used in Case and Ingersoll tractors. Nutcase446 has a lot of hands-on experience with these tractors as do antiqueetc, CP7, Wattonyooper and [email protected]
CP7, Wattonyooper and [email protected] are also members of this site and have my respect. antiqueetc is an advisor on this site as is Grummy.
Kenneth lives in Denmark and the likelihood of him finding a 600 Series anywhere in that country is somewhere between slim and none. The same holds true with finding a used Johnson or KW loader suitable for a GT. As you pointed out, his best option would be to purchase plans from one of the two companies already mentioned in this thread and construct his own. He can correspond via e-mail with either of them on issues concerning the mounting issues of the loader to the tractor. IF Kenneth is thinking of adding a backhoe, then the company should be told that from the outset. Backhoes work best when they are mounted on a sub-frame that will distribute the load throughout the tractor instead of concentrating it in one spot.
As you already found out, adding an FEL to a Case GT is not as simple as it looks on the outside but it can be done with proper advance planning.
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62 Posts
Hydriv, thank you for your respectful smack upside my head. :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Please allow my hand to be your proxy. (Not meant to be funny.)
My ADHD (attention deficit- hyperactivity disorder) is a reason for my to quick to speak issues, and NOT AN EXCUSE. The internet is an amazing place for information, and as a place to make an ass of oneself with some anonymity.
Jayvee43 loader idea will need further scrutiny by me.
Hydriv, your patience and wisdom is appreciated.
Mike
Please allow my hand to be your proxy. (Not meant to be funny.)
My ADHD (attention deficit- hyperactivity disorder) is a reason for my to quick to speak issues, and NOT AN EXCUSE. The internet is an amazing place for information, and as a place to make an ass of oneself with some anonymity.
Jayvee43 loader idea will need further scrutiny by me.
Hydriv, your patience and wisdom is appreciated.
Mike
mblust,
There was no smack from me. You are new to this forum and you are relatively new to MTF.
On the other hand, my experience with RMC goes back to 2004. On MTF, I have many thousands of posts under the screen names "castoff" and "caseguytoo". In the past, I attempted to help JayVee43 both on list and off but this is a person who chooses to dance to his own music. I have no problem with that because it's his dime that is paying the piper and it is he who must live with the results of his actions. If you wish to see some more of his "engineering", then check out his snow blower concoction.
Since you missed out on all that "history", it is perfectly understandable that you might make the conclusions you did. Make no mistake. There are some good minds on MTF but to a degree, those can sometimes be overshadowed by a few not-so-great minds.
No problem about making an ass of yourself either. I do it myself on occasion and it helps bring humility where it is needed. :sidelaugh:
My purpose behind what I wrote was not what some might think . I have no interest in putting others down for the express purpose of making myself look superior. When Jack, Chuck and I began planning this site, we agreed that its prime purpose was to deliver factual information along with providing original printed materials that would TEACH the members about these tractors. Therefore, we are diligent in making sure that information contained in all threads is correct to the best of our ability because those threads will become part of our archives. If we remain silent on an issue and do not refute what is said, then those who use our archives as a research tool MAY conclude that we are in agreement with what was said in that thread. That could lead them into all sorts of harm; both financially and possibly physically.
We don't think that is the right way to run a forum.
There was no smack from me. You are new to this forum and you are relatively new to MTF.
On the other hand, my experience with RMC goes back to 2004. On MTF, I have many thousands of posts under the screen names "castoff" and "caseguytoo". In the past, I attempted to help JayVee43 both on list and off but this is a person who chooses to dance to his own music. I have no problem with that because it's his dime that is paying the piper and it is he who must live with the results of his actions. If you wish to see some more of his "engineering", then check out his snow blower concoction.
Since you missed out on all that "history", it is perfectly understandable that you might make the conclusions you did. Make no mistake. There are some good minds on MTF but to a degree, those can sometimes be overshadowed by a few not-so-great minds.
No problem about making an ass of yourself either. I do it myself on occasion and it helps bring humility where it is needed. :sidelaugh:
My purpose behind what I wrote was not what some might think . I have no interest in putting others down for the express purpose of making myself look superior. When Jack, Chuck and I began planning this site, we agreed that its prime purpose was to deliver factual information along with providing original printed materials that would TEACH the members about these tractors. Therefore, we are diligent in making sure that information contained in all threads is correct to the best of our ability because those threads will become part of our archives. If we remain silent on an issue and do not refute what is said, then those who use our archives as a research tool MAY conclude that we are in agreement with what was said in that thread. That could lead them into all sorts of harm; both financially and possibly physically.
We don't think that is the right way to run a forum.
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