POWERING that 2nd axle would be relatively simple. Running two drive motors in series (output of #1 to input of #2, #2 output to return) would give the same set up as a 6 X 4 Gator. However, I imagine the turning radius would be unwieldy. And of course switching from Hi to Low would require either getting off the tractor or some very creative linkage.screamineagle66 said:
Has anyone built a Deere Gator type utility from a 446 ?
I have it in my head I want to build a Gator type utility with a hydraulic dump bed from a 444, 446 tractor. Has anyone done it ? I haven't seen one, but in my head it seems like it should be fairly easy........
Not necessarily a 2 seater, just with the hydraulic dump being part of the tractor.
Not necessarily a 2 seater, just with the hydraulic dump being part of the tractor.
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It would be kinda cool to see one built from a Case.
Maynard
Maynard
If screamingeagle buys either one of the two he is talking about, it's gonna be an Ingy. I too really want to see a Case with this kind of mod.
Can't wait to see what he ends up doing... :thumbsup:
Can't wait to see what he ends up doing... :thumbsup:
I would keep in mind what I was talking about the TCV with the holdback circuit built in. The 3016 will definitely have that, but depending on the year of the 222, it may not. Also, you may want the larger 16hp engine, instead of the 12 hp in the 222 to power this thing. If it were me, I'd go for the 3016, and rebuild the Vangard, but that's just me. I have over 700 hours on my 4016 with that engine, and it hasn't given me any trouble what so ever.screamineagle66 said:The 3016 has a Briggs, which isn't as desirable but also less expensive to replace. The 222 also has a snow blade on it, which I can sell to recoup some of the cost as I don't need it. It seems like this 222 has everything I am looking for, and it's surely cheap enough. Maybe I'll make a road trip tomorrow.
Thanks again, hopefully I can start chronicling the build soon.
Good point Scott, I didn't go into detail about the Holding valve because I didn't want to get too many things running through the OP's brain but you are right on.
There is always the possibiility that the 222 might have the valve installed already, I just picked up a 79-224 that did but it wasn't listed by the seller because he didn't have a clue what it was or was intended to do.
I don;t have any experience with the Vangaurd engines but I understand they have plenty of power but not the same torque that the K's and O's have and if the 12 wasn't enough power he always has the option of swapping a 14hp into it to make up the difference.
I was just steering him towards the 222 because he stated it was in good running shape to begin with which would allow him to get started on his conversion without having to do an engine rebuild before anything else.
The holding valve is about a $150 upgrade, not a bad choice whn considering the alternative of taking on the engine problems and associated costs to start with.
Either one of us has solid ground to stand on OP, the main thing is finding something you are comfortable with and suits YOUR needs.
Scott has an excellent track record and the skills to back up what he says. I was just trying to help as much as I could while the board was slow last night.
There is always the possibiility that the 222 might have the valve installed already, I just picked up a 79-224 that did but it wasn't listed by the seller because he didn't have a clue what it was or was intended to do.
I don;t have any experience with the Vangaurd engines but I understand they have plenty of power but not the same torque that the K's and O's have and if the 12 wasn't enough power he always has the option of swapping a 14hp into it to make up the difference.
I was just steering him towards the 222 because he stated it was in good running shape to begin with which would allow him to get started on his conversion without having to do an engine rebuild before anything else.
The holding valve is about a $150 upgrade, not a bad choice whn considering the alternative of taking on the engine problems and associated costs to start with.
Either one of us has solid ground to stand on OP, the main thing is finding something you are comfortable with and suits YOUR needs.
Scott has an excellent track record and the skills to back up what he says. I was just trying to help as much as I could while the board was slow last night.
The OP could pick up both and use the best parts then sell the rest! Sounds like they both need a good home.kungdrew said:Good point Scott, I didn't go into detail about the Holding valve because I didn't want to get too many things running through the OP's brain but you are right on.
There is always the possibiility that the 222 might have the valve installed already, I just picked up a 79-224 that did but it wasn't listed by the seller because he didn't have a clue what it was or was intended to do.
I don;t have any experience with the Vangaurd engines but I understand they have plenty of power but not the same torque that the K's and O's have and if the 12 wasn't enough power he always has the option of swapping a 14hp into it to make up the difference.
I was just steering him towards the 222 because he stated it was in good running shape to begin with which would allow him to get started on his conversion without having to do an engine rebuild before anything else.
The holding valve is about a $150 upgrade, not a bad choice whn considering the alternative of taking on the engine problems and associated costs to start with.
Either one of us has solid ground to stand on OP, the main thing is finding something you are comfortable with and suits YOUR needs.
Scott has an excellent track record and the skills to back up what he says. I was just trying to help as much as I could while the board was slow last night.
I talked about the holdback circuit of the TCV earlier in this thread. I'm not sure I can explain it any better than that.
One other thing, I read this morning that there was some talk about installing a second transaxle in this. Looks wise, I think it would be cool, but is really not very practical. Here's why: adding a second axle would make steering that much more difficult, especially when loaded. And, the one rear axle is going to handle anything (weight wise) that you can load on it. IMHO
As it turns out, the 3016 is too far away to be practical. It showed up in an ebay search I have built, thankfully I hit Mapquest before I hit buy it now ! The search is a 200 mile radius, this tractor is nearly 500 miles away so not sure how it fell into the search results.......
At any rate, the 222 is in running condition and hopefully it's got the holding valve. If not, it's still a good value and I can always add it. It's got what looks like a 54" blade on it - would be a nice accessory on a dump tractor or could sell it to buy other needed parts........
Sounds like there are more cons to the tag axle than pros, so I think that is out of the plans. I'll post pics of the 222 if I can get it bought today.
Thanks all for the input !
At any rate, the 222 is in running condition and hopefully it's got the holding valve. If not, it's still a good value and I can always add it. It's got what looks like a 54" blade on it - would be a nice accessory on a dump tractor or could sell it to buy other needed parts........
Sounds like there are more cons to the tag axle than pros, so I think that is out of the plans. I'll post pics of the 222 if I can get it bought today.
Thanks all for the input !
Here's a photo of one of Tom's favorites that was on ebay some time back.screamineagle66 said:I have it in my head I want to build a Gator type utility with a hydraulic dump bed from a 444, 446 tractor. Has anyone done it ? I haven't seen one, but in my head it seems like it should be fairly easy........
Not necessarily a 2 seater, just with the hydraulic dump being part of the tractor.
Gee Bart,
I thought that you were my friend. :sidelaugh:
I had hoped that I never had to lay my eyes on that thing again and now.....here it is . Thanks a bunch.
Opinion.
The best choice would be a 200 or better yet. a 3000.
HP isn't relevant. Why? Because the max HP the hydraulic system is capable of applying to the rear wheels is 12. HP greater than 12 has little to no effect.
And tractor made in 1986 will have the built in holding valve. Yes, it's a nice feature but if you are not going up and down steep grades, then it isn't all that necessary. If grades are an issue, then the separate holding valve kit ($200.0) can be added OR a used travel/lift/holding valve from a post 85 tractor can be swapped in.
You are too worried about the hydraulic system. Pick a tractor and buy it. For what you want to do, any Hydriv tractor will give you all you need in hydraulic power. It's a fairly simple mod to make. Cut the frame where the checker plate floor is. Your eyes will tell you the best spot.
You will need to get 2 hoses to hook the drive motor to the travel valve. Since you no longer need the implement lift, you could remove the entire lift cylinder and just use two more 1/4" lines to feed the cylinder for the dump box. Probably the most difficult task will be extending the Hi/Lo Range shifter. A new seat pedestal with the fuel tank underneath.
I thought that you were my friend. :sidelaugh:
I had hoped that I never had to lay my eyes on that thing again and now.....here it is . Thanks a bunch.
Opinion.
The best choice would be a 200 or better yet. a 3000.
HP isn't relevant. Why? Because the max HP the hydraulic system is capable of applying to the rear wheels is 12. HP greater than 12 has little to no effect.
And tractor made in 1986 will have the built in holding valve. Yes, it's a nice feature but if you are not going up and down steep grades, then it isn't all that necessary. If grades are an issue, then the separate holding valve kit ($200.0) can be added OR a used travel/lift/holding valve from a post 85 tractor can be swapped in.
You are too worried about the hydraulic system. Pick a tractor and buy it. For what you want to do, any Hydriv tractor will give you all you need in hydraulic power. It's a fairly simple mod to make. Cut the frame where the checker plate floor is. Your eyes will tell you the best spot.
You will need to get 2 hoses to hook the drive motor to the travel valve. Since you no longer need the implement lift, you could remove the entire lift cylinder and just use two more 1/4" lines to feed the cylinder for the dump box. Probably the most difficult task will be extending the Hi/Lo Range shifter. A new seat pedestal with the fuel tank underneath.
I saved the photo in case I decided to build something similar. It may never happen because I'm having trouble locating a bench seat like the one in the photo. :sidelaugh:
If you are building a dump box make sure the rear end is high enough to fully empty the box. If you pivot the box in the center the rear end will drop low and you won't be able to dump in a pile. Better to have the pivot at the read end though that requires a somewhat more powerful dump mechanism.
If you are building a dump box make sure the rear end is high enough to fully empty the box. If you pivot the box in the center the rear end will drop low and you won't be able to dump in a pile. Better to have the pivot at the read end though that requires a somewhat more powerful dump mechanism.
i'm liking what i'm seeing. especially some of the prices you are finding. i need to go see about a non running 3000 series and see what sort of parts would make sense.. could be good to part out or use in a similar project.. i was referred to the 3000 due to the sleeve hitch and pto.. i also found a 222 with the shaft driven blower.. needed some work done on the front end (something about a welded fix that broke... front axle or some such).. that was $650. the trade that got me into a case 444 with attachments and bonus bolens husky was more attractive (less cash involved!)
you could always keep the blade on the tractor. this way you can dump what your carrying in the bed and have the capability to push that stuff around.
maybe tie a selector valve in to the lift circuit. you could sell off the mechanical/electric pto, that wouldn't be needed.
maybe tie a selector valve in to the lift circuit. you could sell off the mechanical/electric pto, that wouldn't be needed.
Finally got a call back on the Ingy 222, sold two weeks ago. Love it when they don't cancel the ad....... SO - still looking for a tractor. I have located an 80's 222 with a deck and blower for $250, but the engine needs rebuilt. If I don't find another soon I will likely just buy it. There's a local guy who pulls with Cubs that rebuilds Kohlers, so it would be easy and fairly reasonable to have it rebuilt. I would rather find a solid running tractor if I can however.
If anyone has a link to a running driving 222, please pass it on.
Thanks.
If anyone has a link to a running driving 222, please pass it on.
Thanks.
Hate to hear that, but unfortunately it happens a lot.
Don't worry, your deal will pop up if you just keep searching. I would still make friends with the Cub guy, could prove to be a great help as far as parts and advice as your hobby grows.
Don't worry, your deal will pop up if you just keep searching. I would still make friends with the Cub guy, could prove to be a great help as far as parts and advice as your hobby grows.
I was wondering how you made out. Like Drew said, keep watching and something will pop up.
Let us know when you're ready and you'll have more help than you'll know what to do with! :thumbup:
Let us know when you're ready and you'll have more help than you'll know what to do with! :thumbup:
Yes, there will be plenty to choose from I'm sure. It will give me time to get a new trailer built, traded the last one I built for my 46 VAC. New one will be very heavy duty, found a guy with new unused camper frames for $200, the main rails are 10 inch I beams. It's cut down and the spring hangers are welded in place, waiting for snow to go away so I can flip it over and start on the deck frame. Have been assembling the parts for a couple months, waiting on the right deals. I never pay too much, it's become a game.......... or obsession, not sure which.
At any rate, new load range E tires, some old mag wheels blasted and painted, and a new 5200 pound Dexter axle. I always build in the things that we never like or miss on trailers built by companies, this one will be no different. I'll post some pics when I get going further on it. I don't build your typical backyard trailer.......
If I can figure out this picture posting thing, I'll add a picture of my last one.
At any rate, new load range E tires, some old mag wheels blasted and painted, and a new 5200 pound Dexter axle. I always build in the things that we never like or miss on trailers built by companies, this one will be no different. I'll post some pics when I get going further on it. I don't build your typical backyard trailer.......
If I can figure out this picture posting thing, I'll add a picture of my last one.
In the Jan/Feb issue of LAGC, there's an article about this very thing being done to a Cub Cadet. This is why I bang the drum loudly for this magazine. There is always something of interest inside the covers. If someone wants to build a utility vehicle using any brand of tractor, I'm pretty sure that they will learn something from that article.
There are two types of holding valve. The earlier type is a separate rectangular block that fits in between the TCV and the hydraulic motor. Since there is not much space there it takes some special plumbing to get everything to fit together on a regular tractor. On a utility vehicle like you are thinking of building the hydraulic motor will be much farther back so you could easily use made up hydraulic rubber hoses to connect from the TCV to the holding valve and then to the hydraulic motor. This type of holding valve comes up for sale fairly often on ebay. Due to the need for the special plumbing, those that have the special tubes along with the valve usually bring top price. If you can find one for sale that does not have the special tubing with it you should be able to get it for a much lower price.
The later type of holding valve is built right into the TVC.
The later type of holding valve is built right into the TVC.
I think you guys are thinking backwards. Here is my dream:
200 series. Cheaper, just as tough !
Use a 400 series drive motor.
Remove hood/engine/pump.
Add a second FRONT axle behind the original in the exact fashion as the front is configured.
Make the second axle steer just like the front axle.
Install a dump box on top of the frame where the engine was. Lots of room now for a lift cylinder and power steering if desired.
Put a short hood/enclosure panel over the steering tower where the battery is... also a spot to mount additional hydraulic valves ALA the Dan Haas Articulated.
Put the 1980 style decals on each side of the box for a factory look.
Hang ANY old engine behind the rear axle with a hydraulic pump(or two) ALA Gravely tractors. Use an inexpensive, easy to find vertical shaft if you would like.
Now you DRIVE to where you want to dump stuff.
You wanna hear my Case GT Barbecue grille ideas ? LoL !!!
200 series. Cheaper, just as tough !
Use a 400 series drive motor.
Remove hood/engine/pump.
Add a second FRONT axle behind the original in the exact fashion as the front is configured.
Make the second axle steer just like the front axle.
Install a dump box on top of the frame where the engine was. Lots of room now for a lift cylinder and power steering if desired.
Put a short hood/enclosure panel over the steering tower where the battery is... also a spot to mount additional hydraulic valves ALA the Dan Haas Articulated.
Put the 1980 style decals on each side of the box for a factory look.
Hang ANY old engine behind the rear axle with a hydraulic pump(or two) ALA Gravely tractors. Use an inexpensive, easy to find vertical shaft if you would like.
Now you DRIVE to where you want to dump stuff.
You wanna hear my Case GT Barbecue grille ideas ? LoL !!!
I totally agree. I bought a holding valve with no tubes for a bit over $100.00. I'm saving it for a project that won't need the tubes. Normally they bring about double what I paid.casekeeper said:There are two types of holding valve. The earlier type is a separate rectangular block that fits in between the TCV and the hydraulic motor. Since there is not much space there it takes some special plumbing to get everything to fit together on a regular tractor. On a utility vehicle like you are thinking of building the hydraulic motor will be much farther back so you could easily use made up hydraulic rubber hoses to connect from the TCV to the holding valve and then to the hydraulic motor. This type of holding valve comes up for sale fairly often on ebay. Due to the need for the special plumbing, those that have the special tubes along with the valve usually bring top price. If you can find one for sale that does not have the special tubing with it you should be able to get it for a much lower price.
The later type of holding valve is built right into the TVC.
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