[werminghausen]

Seals at hydraulic motor

I see the exterior seal is #34

Does anyone know the size of that ring 30095?

Then inside there are only 2 seal rings (#6) for the 'tube'. Who knows the 2 o-rings (size)?
And one seal ring #14 inside.
There was a seal kit #19037. Does this kit still exist?

I think it is relatively simple to open the cap (7 bolts?)
Is it worth opening that motor?

Or do you recommend to just install the motor and done with it?
Martin

 

[iko]

Your pressure gauge better go up to 3000 psi. The highest pressure you'll see will probably be between 1000 and 2000 psi, and Max will be when you go forward or backwards against an immovable object like a tree. Be careful whatever you do, hydraulics can be really dangerous.

 

[werminghausen]

Your pressure gauge better go up to 3000 psi. The highest pressure you'll see will probably be between 1000 and 2000 psi, and Max will be when you go forward or backwards against an immovable object like a tree. Be careful whatever you do, hydraulics can be really dangerous.

Thanks iko for your warnings, appreciated.
I am very familiar with hydraulics (engineer) and I am working a lot with old Mercedes 600 hydraulics and W126 hydraulic suspension (I repair them). They all run on 200bar (3000psi) pressures. So I am well equipped to tackle this problem.
When I have the gauge hooked up I'll check the pressure when driving against the tree lol...
I am just curios how to test the hydraulic pump output?
Martin

 

[iko]

Output? Flow or pressure?

Keep in mind that the tcv has a pressure relief valve. When going against the tree it will probably squeal.

Here are some possible scenarios.

• you go against the tree and both wheels lock. Record the pressure on the gauge. Why are the wheels not moving? Either the relief valve is not set right, or oil gets pass the motor or pump.
• if one wheel locks and one turns you can't really draw any conclusion related to the max pressure the pump can generate.

You probably don't care about the flow rate now.

 

[werminghausen]

hi Iko, all I care about is a judgment about the pump. Is there a common test procedure: How to you determine a good pump vs a bad pump?

 

[Timj]

Martin,
In the service manuals section of the technical library under the hydraulic section is a number of manuals for trouble shooting and testing the hydraulic system. Don't know if you have been there yet, but if you find the test manual for your tractor, it shows what to do to test it. And what you're readings should be.
🤓 Tim

 

[werminghausen]

Seals at hydraulic motor

I see the exterior seal is #34

Is this #34 seal one of these?
The diameter measured with the caliper inside the groove is 3.026"
OD of flange is 3.25"

So I guess the 234 o-ring would fit, but I am not very familiar with the imperial o-rings, nominal size and actual size are different. I looked up a chart and it seems to fit

If someone knows the other o-rings size (inside the motor) please share.

Martin

 

[bhildret]

Yes, the O Ring of the motor to axle case is a -234.

C28949 } O RING

O RING

salempwr.com

An item we keep in stock of course.

Brian

 

[iko]

Yes, the O Ring of the motor to axle case is a -234.

C28949 } O RING

O RING

salempwr.com

An item we keep in stock of course.

Brian

What Brian said [emoji846]

 

[werminghausen]

Thanks Brian and all.
I was looking at the hydraulic section of the library.

I found some good information
Here is one for the analysis of what happened. I have no proof yet that the problem was the motor.... yes there was an external leak but not much oil came out. If the motor is the problem it must be internal damage.
The cause for the tractor not moving can be the pump, TCV or the motor.

Well at least there was a response from the motor with the external leakage. This should tell a story at least.
If it were the control valve (internal leakage /relief valve damaged or open) then there would have been no response from the motor because no pressure would have reached the motor.
The same was true if the pump had a damage.... why would the motor leak all of a sudden?
Even though I don't know for sure simple logic tells me that chances are the problem is the motor and less chances the problem is the TCV or pump.

This means for me right now that I'll go and install the 'new' motor and the check if the tractor is back or not.
I am happy about any comments from you about this approach.

Best, Martin

 

[werminghausen]

I was trying to remove the old hydraulic motor.... very tight spaces. I can't break the upper 2 bolts lose with a 12 point 1/2" tool. It seems I need to remove the rear axle from the frame to gain better access?
That is probably what I need to do because I don't have any magic tool that would fit. The bottom two bolts I could remove by cutting the socket short in order to get a ratchet +socket in place but that does not work on the upper 2 bolts. Probably these bolts were never moved since 1976.
Martin

 

[Seabee]

Martin,
There is a notch in the LH axle that is meant to give you access on the bolts. Move that notch around for each bolt and that should do the job for you.

Bill

Good luck!

 

[Jancoe]

I use a 12pt crows foot wrench. It is a pain to get to those top bolts.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[Gary c]

Did you try to push the tractor with the gear selector in neutral, you could have a bolt jammed in the rear axle gears. That "o"ring could have popped because the rear ended is locked up.

 

[werminghausen]

I use a 12pt crows foot wrench. It is a pain to get to those top bolts.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I think you are right. I'll get the crow foot wrench. Thanks, Martin

 

[werminghausen]

Did you try to push the tractor with the gear selector in neutral, you could have a bolt jammed in the rear axle gears. That "o"ring could have popped because the rear ended is locked up.

No, I did not try to move the tractor in neutral. I'll check if it is moving in neutral and report back.

Martin

 

[werminghausen]

Martin,
There is a notch in the LH axle that is meant to give you access on the bolts. Move that notch around for each bolt and that should do the job for you.

Bill

Good luck!

Thanks Bill, not sure what you mean with the notch in the left axle? Do you have a picture?
I ordered a 12 point crow foot (1/2" size). I am not very well equipped with imperial tools. I am using mostly metric tools for my old Mercedes 😀cars.

 

[Seabee]

Martin,

The flange on the end of the LH axle has a notch on the outer edge of that flange. That was done so that as you rotate the axle (LH) the notch will correspond to where the bolts are located on the drive motor flange that bolts to the gear case.

I don't have a picture available at this time.

Bill

 

[Lionel]

Hmm,
Is this what you are pulling off?

Notice that nice long shaft sticking into the gear box?

Now, this may be the wrong manual for your year,
But they are fairly standard, so, have a look at page #48 in this manual,, on that page, you will see part #24. That gear, goes onto the shaft of the motor you're looking at pulling. Now, I've never taken off the motor, without tearing the case apart, but I'd say, you have high odds of that gear, falling down a bit,, You might be able to jiggle it back into place, and then, line things up, to get it across the case, over into the bearing that sits on the end of that motor shaft. I just took a look at a couple of my tractors, to see if I could get that motor out of there, without dropping the axle. Since you're pulling the motor, we already know the axle is disconnected hydraulically from the tractor. Looking at the top 2 bolts,, which are quite tight and quite difficult to get at,, for the sake of saving about an hours work,, I'd drop the axle out, remove the top plate off the axle, have a peak inside there anyways, then I'd comfortably remove that motor out of there,, It would also be a fantastic time to look at the bolts inside the case, that like to shear off anyways. Just my thoughts,,

https://manuals.casecoltingersoll.com/PartsManuals/Case%20220,%20222,%20224,%20444%20Parts%20Manual%20A1322_watermarked.pdf

 

[werminghausen]

Thanks Lionel,

that old little pumpkin has to go away on my tractor.
Maybe you are right and the best thing is to remove seat and fenders, remove the rear axle from the frame.
This way I can inspect the inside of the gearbox and differential.
Someone mentioned the gearbox might be jammed and therefore the motor was pushing against the 'wall' with too high pressures? Not sure if this is true as this happened after the tractor was parked fine in my garage waiting for winter duty. So if something was going wrong inside the gear box .. why when I wanted to go snow blowing?