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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys, I am having trouble with my 646 LBH. I was using it to dig and push some dirt around. After about an hour of use, I noticed it had no travel power. The BH and FL were still going strong, but it was real difficult moving in forward or reverse. Trying to get up a slight incline was a pita. I have read some info here and would like to start with the hydraulics\oil.

I am not at all used to working on any hydraulics, I barely get by on GTs and small engines. I am just a weekend tinkerer. I am not a mechanic at all, but I can swing a hammer. :think:
So my question.. Is this not a job I should try tackling on my own?
I would like to do it on my own, but dont want to make matters worse, or hurt anyone in the process.

I mean its just changing the oil right? :chopwood: :headscratcher: :drinkbuddies:
 

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If you are capable of using ordinary wrenches and you don't mind getting dirty, then the FAQ will guide you through the oil change process. It's not a fun job considering the number of cylinders that must be drained to carry out a proper oil change but there's nothing all that tricky about it. Start with the loader and progress to the hoe. Once you've got a couple cylinders done, the rest will seem much easier. It's pretty well next to impossible to screw this up so this will be a good learning experience for you and a real confidence builder.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks Tom, just what I needed was a bit of confidence. :) It may be a bit before I can get to it. I have read that doc and will keep it with me each step of the way. I am not sure it will resolve my issue, but I am not sure the history of the machine either. I will start with the oil and take it from there. :fingerscrossed:
 

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Apparently, this has been your tractor for some time and it performed well up to just recently. I highly doubt that your real problem stems from the wrong oil but......a thorough oil change certainly won't hurt and it will eliminate that issue.

I would be more inclined to suspect the banana plate and other linkage under the tractor. That's where I would look first. You need a helper. Get them to sit on the tractor (no keys in the ignition) while you crawl underneath with a trouble-light. Locate the travel/lift valve. What you are trying to determine is this. When your helper puts the travel lever in full forward and then steps on the pedal on the right side, does the spool in the travel valve move all the way out or in? And if they move the travel lever to full reverse, does the spool move all the way out or in? If the banana plate and associated parts are badly worn or if something has been broken or bent or come undone, then you are not getting full movement of the spool in the travel/lift valve and that's what is impeding your movement.

Before changing out the oil, that's where you need to focus. Locate your parts manual in the Library here and study that linkage. Print out the pages so you can refer to them while you are under the tractor.
 

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If this problem only surfaces after using the tractor for awhile and goes away overnight then I would not only check the oil but make sure the oil cooler is not clogged with debris. Overheated oil will thin out and give symptoms similar to incorrect oil.
 

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Nutcase2, One question that you asked was "is this a problem that I should tackle on my own". If you don't have an experianced Ingersoll dealer close by I would say that fixing it yourself is your best bet. I buy a lot of Case tractors. I would estimate that about half of them are not running when I get them. In most cases they quit running or moving and the owner took them to the local JD dealer or small engine guy who screwed around with them for a while then gave up and gave the tractor back. It is difficult to find a good mechanic today. I guess what I'm saying is that unless you have a Ingersoll dealer close (I don't think that you do) you are unlikely to find anyone with half the knowledge that is in this forum.
 

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:goodpost: :goodpost:

There have been instances where owners have taken their machines to an Ingersoll dealer and not got the results they were looking for until they came to one of the on-line forums for assistance. There are good dealers and not-so-good dealers out there. Your wallet is far better off sticking with this forum and having you do the work on your own.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hydriv said:
Apparently, this has been your tractor for some time and it performed well up to just recently. I highly doubt that your real problem stems from the wrong oil but......a thorough oil change certainly won't hurt and it will eliminate that issue.

I would be more inclined to suspect the banana plate and other linkage under the tractor. That's where I would look first. You need a helper. Get them to sit on the tractor (no keys in the ignition) while you crawl underneath with a trouble-light. Locate the travel/lift valve. What you are trying to determine is this. When your helper puts the travel lever in full forward and then steps on the pedal on the right side, does the spool in the travel valve move all the way out or in? And if they move the travel lever to full reverse, does the spool move all the way out or in? If the banana plate and associated parts are badly worn or if something has been broken or bent or come undone, then you are not getting full movement of the spool in the travel/lift valve and that's what is impeding your movement.

Before changing out the oil, that's where you need to focus. Locate your parts manual in the Library here and study that linkage. Print out the pages so you can refer to them while you are under the tractor.
Thanks fellas for all the response.
Tom
Yes I have had this tractor for some time now. I did not really get to use it like I did the other day. Most of the time it was to pull it out of the garage and out of the way. The other problem for me is finding the helper to sit on the seat while I am underneath poking around. Help is hard to find these days. lol
I will check out the movement of things and poke around further before I change out the oil.

Bart
The problem seems to be only after the tractor gets hot. Yesterday I removed the front grille assembly. The oil cooler was complely blocked with a blanket of thick tar like gunk. I cleaned that off and put it back together. I did not have anymore time to test her out afterwards. My time was up :mad:

Nutcase446
I do not believe there is a dealer anywhere close to me. I would have to investigate that further. I am quite confident in the knowledge on this forum and also appreciate the help that everyone here has to offer. My problem is not so much taking things apart but getting them back together with no spare parts.

I will report back as soon as I get back up there to tinker.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
InTroubleAlltheTime said:
Be confident with the support from this group. There is tremendous talent here.
Not saying to go out and buy it, but did anyone notice that the dreaded banana plate is available from Myers for under 50 buck? TomA posted this site a couple weeks ago.
http://www.casegardentractorparts.com/c2shpl60.html :goodpost: Hydriv
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
Rich, I did not know that. Thanks. :thumbsup:
 

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If I were you I'd make sure you have the correct oil--change it if you haven't done so since acquiring the tractor--then test it with the clean oil cooler and your problem may be solved a lot easier than messing with the valve controls. If, in fact, you have a problem with the travel valve adjustment and/or banana plate it should be obvious before the system heats up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hey guys, sorry for the snails pace.. I went to do some checking on the 646 and now I can't get her to start. I am not sure but it seems like a neutral switch problem (just guessing). When I turn the key, I get just the red light on the dash and nothing else.. no clicks noise or anything else. Battery seems ok and I even tried to give her a jump with a battery charger.. no change.

I took a few photos of underneath what looks like at least one safety switch. Is there a way to bypass that switch?? Also, I took the liberty of snapping some shots of the bannana plate and whatever else is under there. Anything obvious?? I did not have any help with me so I could not have anyone move the travel lever back and forth, but there seemed to be way too much slop and free movement with that plate and linkage.

Not sure what you guys can tell from the photos but please fire away. I need to get this thing started it is blocking the whole fleet behind it.

Thanks















sorry guys if the photos are a bit much. I wanted to include as many as possible.
 

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The Parts Manual indicates that there are TWO neutral safety switches on your tractor that are wired in series with each other and are wired in series with the ignition switch and the starter solenoid.

Either one of the switches has failed or it is not being actuated to complete the start circuit or a wire is off or a wire is broken or a wire is corroded.

Here's the simple test.

Locate the starter motor. Hopefully, you have a clear view of the rear of the starter solenoid that is piggybacked onto the actual starter. You will see the heavy wire coming from the battery to the large lug on the solenoid. There will be a small lug next to it that receives the power from the keyswitch via the two safety switches. Use something metal (old screwdriver) to create a short circuit between the big lug and the small lug. Just make sure the trans-axle is in neutral when you do this. If the ignition key is turned to ON, the engine will start if you short those two terminals together. The instant the engine starts, remove the short.

Now you know that power is not getting to the starter solenoid..

- use a test light to see if power is leaving the keyswitch S terminal when the key is turned to START. If you have power at the keyswitch, then it's OK.

- follow the wire that leaves the keyswitch to the first safety switch and look for power on both sides of that switch when the key is twisted to START.

- if you get power on one side but not the other, then either the plunger of the switch is not being depressed far enough or the switch is defective.

- if you do get power on both sides with the keyswitch turned to START, then follow the wire to the next safety switch and repeat the test.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Ok, will do the short trick and see if that gets her started. I dont have a test light. I do have a meter, just not sure how to use it. Electircal is not one of my good points :thumbdown:

It is in a real tight space and I will need to get it out of the garage so that I can test those switches. Can you tell me how to test the switches with the meter please?

Everything is a pita up there, no internet to report back.. have to drive 9 miles to grab a signal. Will keep you posted asap.

Thanks
 

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If you have a Multi-Meter, then it will have various scales on it that will measure AC volts, DC volts, Amps and a thing called OHMS, which is resistance to the flow of current.

Begin by locating the DC VOLTS range on the meter. You should have a red probe and a black one. Put the red one on the battery + terminal and the black one on the battery - terminal. The meter should read 12 volts. If so, then you now know how to measure DC volts.

With black probe touching clean metal (good ground), you can use the red probe to determine if the key switch is delivering 12 volts to the START circuit when the key is turned to START. The meter needle or LCD scale should flip back and forth every time you twist the key and release it from the START position. Once you have that figured out, it's a simple matter to repeat this process as you follow that wire to each safety switch. Obviously, you should see 12 volts on at least one side of each switch unless the wire going to that switch is broken internally or corroded internally.

I spoke about the OHMS scale. Reset your meter to OHMS. DIsconnect the positive wire that goes to the tractor's battery to protect your meter while using the OHM's scale.

With the meter set to OHMS, touch the red and black probes together while watching the meter. You should see a change in the LCD readout or the meter needle should move to the left side of the scale. That indicates "continuity", meaning that there is NO resistance to current flow. If the meter's internal batteries are OK, that's what should happen. IF it does not happen, then a new set of batteries will likely fix the problem.


Assuming that you have a properly working meter, remove the two wires going to the safety switch. While watching the meter. put the probes across the switch. It does not matter which probe you put on which terminal on the switch. Just make sure that the probes are not touching one another but are touching the switch terminals. DID the meter move like it did when you touched the probes together earlier? If so, then the switch is allowing current to flow through it. If the meter did not move, then you need to depress the switch actuator to see if you get current flow. IF you do, then the problem is evident. The switch needs to be adjusted so that it gets fully depressed when everything is in neutral.

Test the second switch the same way.

You can also put the probes on each end of a wire to make sure that wire will flow current. If you get a partial reading on the meter, then you are seeing a high resistance to current flow and that wire should likely be replaced.

If you get the tractor started using the method I described in my other post, you can perform whatever work you need to do as long as you don't stall the engine or shut it off. These switches are just there to make sure that the tractor isn't in gear when it is being started.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Forgive any typos or spelling this is from my phone.
When shorting the starter it did not get me started. With key in off position I get a spark. when shorting the starter. When the key switch is in the start position I get zilch.. no spark. The meter shows the battery putting out 11.87 volts. The key switch seems to be getting the power. Turning the key switch to the start position seemed to put out less than the the 11 plus volts. Im sorry it wash really turf to do this without another set of hands to turn the key while holding the probes. After disconnecting the pos bat term n switching to ohms. I only found the one safety switch pictured. It seemed to read 0 on the ohm meter. The meterhas an audible beep as well. The switch did beep indicating a complete circuit.. does that sound correct or do I sound like a complete bonehead?
Ok. Where do I go from here .. to the bar?? :drinkbuddies:
Hope this works I have no way to preview this before I send if it even makes it through. Service is sketchy up here.
 
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