[Newsman]

Now it's into the nitty gritty.
Had to unhook the rear hydraulic control. One line came off fine, the other- not so much.The fittings unscrewed from each other but was frozen on the line, even after couple days PB Blaster. And as I was turning the line crimped at a 90. So that's one that will be replaced as I had to cut it off to finish removing it. Lowered the rear and lifted frame so I can get to the breaks in it.

The chain underneath is hooked from the back of the lift to the front so that it couldn't roll off the lift while raising the frame. Jack stands just my normal safety precautions.

Well the left side of the frame is solid even with a crappy looking weld. Will leave the patch but clean up the weld. The right side is broken completely through.

And the angled bar you see laying askew is one of two that is suppose to be welded to the frame so the frame and transmission is bolted together. Plan in place for cleaning break, welding together and also welding angle iron reinforcement in place. Not a lot of room thickness wise but test fit appears to be able to fit a 1 1/2 in angle iron 7/64 thick, which I happen to have. Should be able to slip a piece of 1/8 flat on outside between frame and brake.
All of the welding repairs on this tractor leave a lot to be desired. Haven't even gotten to some up front yet. This to shall pass as they all have an appointment with the grinder.

As far as the transmission, a pleasant surprise. I'm used to old stinking sludge filled fluid in some of the tractors I've taken apart. This one fairly clean, no obvious damage on gears, just a bit on surface rust on gears that had been above fluid level for the past few years. All goes round and round. Will snake a wrench in to make sure none of the bolts on main gear are loose, if one is, well then I'll be looking for suggestions, Tighten in place / take apart. I'm all for former, not so much for the latter. Waiting on new gasket but old one in fine shape. Will probably replace anyway - since I'm in the neighborhood.

MikeC

 

[Lionel]

Difficult to say on what to say here,,

(Will snake a wrench in to make sure none of the bolts on main gear are loose,)

Your oil is decent looking, no water in there. Perhaps someone has already done the job. There are 4 bolts that hold that main gear together. Those 4 bolts, do have a tendency of breaking off, causing all kinds of grief to the housing. A lot of recommendations out there to replace them with new and upgrading the grade of the bolts. Now, these are on the ones that haven't been upgraded. Your oil, looks pretty good, no water, which could lead a person into believing they've been replaced,,,, (It is, a lot of work to replace them though, specially for no reason)

 

[Newsman]

That's sort of my feeling also. Probably gonna roll the dice on this, drain the oil, inspect residue for any kind of metal flakes or heaven forbid, chunks and go from there. If all is clean, then button it up. If not then.. well I'll cross that bridge, if I have to.
MikeC

 

[Newsman]

Bit of a hiccup today. Morning pretty much spent doing prep with the grinder, running for some steel for reinforcement and making sure there was space for my plans. Wanted to double up on the steel, angle inside piece flat on outside but no go with the outer piece. Just not enough room between frame and brake drum. Then after lunch, with everything fit and clamped it was time to weld, or so I thought. First weld tacking on the 1/8" angle went fine. Well fine except I'm not as agile as I once was and welding upside down while leaning over was the pits. But then the welds turned to crap. Played with the wire speed, heat levels and gas flow. Nothing seemed to work. Ground through a couple and they were solid but you wouldn't have thought so by looking at them. Then it really went south. Turned everything off getting ready to go in but then figured out the problem. Although there had been gas flowing when I checked it as i shut down I cked flow again and there wasn't any. Still set at 25cubic ft/hr and bottle still showed 400lbs. Took off regulator and cracked open valve-you guessed it nothing. Fill the bottle tomorrow as well as changing out the valve set. Have a new set but just galls me that this set only lasted 20 yrs. Live and learn.
MikeC

 

[Newsman]

Well it's been one step forward and one steps back. The gas and a good regulator are, as expected, making a world of difference. I still can't get into a comfortable position to weld in, but it is what it is.

Did my first fit and the crappy welds from yesterday were causing problems as may of them were just big blobs and were forcing the frame to the fight, just a 32nd away from the brake drum. Hoisted back in the air, fot out the grinder and redid them. But there's still something keeping it to close to the drum. I suspect bit more grinding called for. There's a spot in the front right corner where I had to weld the front plate that goes across the front of the transmission when it fell out yesterday. Another victim in it's previous life of heavy use cracked the welds holding it in. Unfortunately there is a significant chunk of material that has to be ground out of the corner. Not that much fun using a small Dremel grinder, but it does work. And I really don't even want to think about a torch.
I will say that tractor has been up and down today more than a see-saw at recess.
MikeC

PS: Know it looks messy, but like they say "the camera adds 10 lbs" to folks in a photo. So who's to say that it's not a result of the camera. NOT!

 

[Gordy]

The clean garages I have seen have either been used only to park vehicles in, or have obsessive compulsive neat freak owners

Cheers,
Gordy

 

[Newsman]

I know, been three days and nothing new posted. Burnout you ask? Nope, just other stuff like moving more firewood for the gasification boiler before the rain and then the rains came for the rest of the day Thurs. so a bunch more grinding while waiting for the transmission gasket to dump, clean, inspect and refill. So I get the tracking emails from the USPS and from the get go they say by 9PM today. Only thing wrong with that is a PO only open till 11:30 on Sat. and, the number one reason it won't be here - it left Tenn at 14:15 yesterday. Just know it won't get to me, especially since the sorting center for our area here in NY is where mail goes to die.
Then yesterday it was take the dog (Shepard/Rottweiler mix) to groomer, sounds fancy but we just can't comb out all the matted hair. He even had a tough four hr job. Of course with the wife home (no babysitting granddaughter,) there was the normal running around. So today looks like more grinding, and guess do the tranny and cover with bag till gasket gets here.
MikeC

 

[Newsman]

edited to add the last pictures

OK back to work for couple hrs this afternoon. Weather in the mid to high 50's so rake some of the lawn where we had a big portion of the front lawn 10X15 ft of snow mold. It's an area surrounded on three sides by the driveway front entrance and the porch. It's also the area (bottom of pic) that gets more than it's share of snow when I clear with the blower. Only place to put it.

So after that the wife and I took the dogs out for a walk in the park. Actually to be more accurate they pull us around and we try to hold them back.

Bella

Krissy

So like I said, back home, back on the Case. So finished up this portion of the grinding and got the frame in position with acceptable (hopefully) clearance Not the heavy 1/4 it was but better than 1/8. Ended up with 9/64. So aforementioned gasket (earlier post) didn't leave Tenn yesterday as they said but according to two separate tracking memos, it left the same place in Tenn at two different times. So maybe I see it Mon. So in preparation I drain the oil. Will do a flush with diesel, although when I got the fuel container it was empty. Forgot I had used the last to top of the BX25. So I'll get some tomorrow.
So on to the fun. Oh Lionel if only this was true. When I read that I was in total agreement as the oil did look good. No chocolate mike shake in there. Nothing stirred up when I turned the gears. But wait.

Your oil is decent looking, no water in there. Perhaps someone has already done the job. There are 4 bolts that hold that main gear together. Those 4 bolts, do have a tendency of breaking off, causing all kinds of grief to the housing. A lot of recommendations out there to replace them with new and upgrading the grade of the bolts. Now, these are on the ones that haven't been upgraded. Your oil, looks pretty good, no water, which could lead a person into believing they've been replaced,,,, (It is, a lot of work to replace them though, specially for no reason)

So I get my gallon bucket, take out the drain plug and whoosh, out comes a solid stream of (you got it) water. Not just any old water, no oil just nice crystal clear water. And it keeps on comeing. I'm here to tell you, it was a true oh shucks what the heck happened moment? Just as I'm about to plug it up the oil finally starts draining out. Got another gallon pail and got about another quart in that. So all told about five quarts of fluid which was probably a quart to quart and a half of water.
Looking back at the pictures I found one to put it perspective. IIRC fill to it starts to come out of upper plug hole. Looking at pic I realize it appears to be quit a bit above it, just a bit down from the top.

Have to believe that the sitting on the lift for all those years gave it more than enough time for the separation to happen.
And who knows how long it's been in there. After all it's been in my garage since shortly after I bought it and in a shed prior to that.
And being as the fill plug was blocked by that weight tray, who knows how long the PO drove it like this. I know they left it outside. Probably hadn't been changed since the PO's father painted it.
So Gordy really wish we were right but fortunately I don't see any water related problems. Will know better when I flush it. But knowing that guess I'll flush it several times and then run a bubble hose in the bottom to break and stir up the sludge so it flows out when I drain it.
MikeC

 

[Newsman]

Well the transmission gasket finally got here today. Now with that in hand I started cleaning out the tranny. Actually guess you could say I started over the weekend with pouring three quarts of diesel in it. Kept spinning the gears a few revs every so often, but is was a bit tough to turn. Was using the brake drum so that all the gears were in motion. Then eureka, the light bulb finally went off and everything was turning better. Simple fix - shifted into high. Duh!
Then today I got 1/4 piece of fuel hose onto the end of the air nozzle and kept running it about the bottom of the casing to loosen up the sludge. That nice clean diesel came out looking black. Then stuck the hose around using air only to clean away some areas where it was still dirty. Another couple quarts of diesel to soak overnight and should be good to button up tomorrow. Baby steps, but any progress is good for the soul.
MikeC

 

[metalguy]

Your gearbox sounds like how mine was on my 646! But mine was full to the top...when I drained it, LOTS of water, clear water.....then finally some oil. Amazingly, gears looked good. Mine too, was stored outside. -------Metalguy

 

[Harry]

When I drained my 644 there was no water, but there was this yellow green liquid that smelled like a baby's diaper that was full. Phew!

Keep the Peace
Harry

 

[Newsman]

Well here it is all clean, new gasket and ready to close. It came out pretty darn clean and looking down inside little to no discoloration from gunk on bottom. Think using the air hose to bubble wash the bottom helped a lot. First rinse came out black, second just slightly gray.
MikeC

Oil added, gasket on.

 

[Newsman]

I wist this was as easily accessible as this picture makes it look.

I was ready to post a question about "there must be a better way" cause this took forever. The vise grips are just lightly holding on to keep the actuator stem from turning. Was using a wrench but no room for two big hands. Now I know this looks easy to access but this is just the camera under there.
I on the other hand am slightly larger and nowhere near as flexible or movable. So I had to resort to doing it like this.

The round white circle is the frame of the mirror that I had to brace in place so I could see what I was doing. Of course it was a royal PIA as everything is in the opposite direction from the mirror reversing the image. And this first one never got loose enough to finish by hand. Thank goodness the other I was able to reach up and unscrew it by hand after loosening it with the wrench.
Thankfully this ordeal is over. At least until I have to re-install them on the other valve.
MikeC

 

[Newsman]

Holy crapola, it's in. Not hooked up but is bolted in place. AND it fit in the same holes. So my 444 now has a TCV w/ holding valve, or whatever the technical name is. What a way to end the day. I'm a happy camper.



Good Grief Charlie Brown! That thing is a monster.

Hope everything fits.
MikeC

 

[Newsman]

Hydraulic questions. Here is pic w/labels of old TCV.

First of all what are the two smaller lines w/ ??? for.
But other question is about supply. At top you see from pump, and that goes to rear implement control valve and the line attached to the In port is the return from the rear valve. I have to believe that the fluid flows through open center rear valve and into the TCV , then back to tank. Correct? Would that mean that if when using rear hydraulic trailer to drop spread a load (tailgate spreading in a dump truck) there is enough pass by to still move tractor?
And second question, if I want to take this out of loop (temporarily) for testing, can I just bypass rear valve and use a direct hookup to the TCV?
My best guess is yeas but I don't like operating on guess work.
MikeC

 

[Toolslinger]

The two small lines should go to the mid lift cylinder, and would also feed a 3pt hitch if you've got one.

 

[Gordy]

The manuals are back up. You may find this interesting.

https://manuals.casecoltingersoll.com/ServiceManuals/Hydraulic%20System%20-%20How%20it%20works%209-50882_watermarked.pdf

Others here, they are in the "Service Manuals".

Case Colt Ingersoll Tractors

www.casecoltingersoll.com

Cheers,
Gordy

 

[Newsman]

Ah ha, thanks. Have spent most of my time on the backside and yes have seen the small cylinder up front but hadn't given that a thought. And as soon as I read you response it was a real "of course" moment.
MikeC

 

[Newsman]

Gordy, you posted as I was responding to Toolslinger. Thanks, my download library is growing in leaps and bounds. Will probably still have questions, but then they should be more informed questions.
MikeC

 

[Newsman]

The manuals are back up. You may find this interesting.

https://manuals.casecoltingersoll.com/ServiceManuals/Hydraulic%20System%20-%20How%20it%20works%209-50882_watermarked.pdf

Others here, they are in the "Service Manuals".

Case Colt Ingersoll Tractors

www.casecoltingersoll.com

Cheers,
Gordy

Thanks. The diagram on Pg 14 is as close as I find for what I have. Although if using for the dump trailer do the lines have to be connected to each other when the trailer isn't in the loop, like I have to do when taking BH off of the BX25? Or can they just be left dead headed?
MikeC