Case Colt Ingersoll Tractors banner

81 - 100 of 122 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,715 Posts
Short answer is no they do not need to be connected or looped. But it is a good idea to loop them, just in case the lever gets bumped which would cause a deadhead situation. Some do not like the loop (worried about hooking something with it) and opt to install a hinged lever block, to keep the lever in the center when not needed. My 224-78 came with a quick connect on one port of the PTO and a hose on the other port with a QC on the free end of the hose. The tiller is set up the same. So the hose from the PTO connects to the tiller and the hose on the tiller connects to the PTO. Aside from the safety issue this leaves a loop on the PTO and tiller, having them connected in the loop also keeps the QC's clean.

Cheers,
Gordy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
315 Posts
... I have to believe that the fluid flows through open center rear valve and into the TCV , then back to tank. Correct? Would that mean that if when using rear hydraulic trailer to drop spread a load (tailgate spreading in a dump truck) there is enough pass by to still move tractor?
And second question, if I want to take this out of loop (temporarily) for testing, can I just bypass rear valve and use a direct hookup to the TCV?
My best guess is yeas but I don't like operating on guess work.
MikeC
Yes you can bypass completely.

If using the PTO valve for dumping, you will just feathering it so most of the flow will still going to drive. In fact, since its a double acting cylinder, all the flow (with consideration of the ratio) will come back through the TCV. I think it will go crazy fast if you fully shift the valve. You may want to consider adding aux lines to back and using accessory valve for dumping. What was the previous tractor you used trailer on; it probably just used the 2-4gpm charge pump.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
74 Posts
Discussion Starter #84
This came with the tractor when I bought it. (See Pix First post Page 1 this thread) I built a portable hydraulic unit that I slap in the back of the ATV to use for dumping. (pix Post 6 same page)Re: The cylinder. What was determined when I first built the unit back in 2014 was that the double acting cylinder has bypasses at each end of the stroke; so the engine doesn't stall when hit the end of stroke.There are two pins on the bottom of the piston open a passage front the top side to bottom when they hit the end of cylinder and the holes at top let oil bypass when the piston rings pass them on the way up.
MikeC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
74 Posts
Discussion Starter #85
Nicer weather meant picking up some mid-winter pruning remains along with all the twigs and small branches taken down by snow and wind along with the early spring raking in the yard. But then I hit a delay and I have to lay the blame on Lionel's shoulders. (sorry bout that Lionel)
I come in to ck a picture of my old TCV and start thinking about tires and paint. Now for the life of me, with all I've got to do on this, those two items are so far in the future that I'll forget what I find out. But be that as it may, I click on a link that you know who suggested when I mentioned paints when referring to manuals not then responding during an Off Topic discussion.
The link Lionel's"My #2 project another 446." Well THAT'S not a quick read. So much good info, much of what I probably need to know, and before you know it three and a half hrs later, wife is telling me dinner's ready. But wait, I'm only on page 8 and the discussion on the three point lift. AND I'm not even half way through the 19 page thread. I really want to click the last page, but like a good book I must wait for the end. Even through I'm pretty certain I know how it will turn out... better than new with improvements that although not noticeable, thoroughly thought out and very effective.
MikeC

PS And that was just one of two links he sent me. BTW 🤫 I don't want anyone spoiling the ending.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
5,998 Posts
LOL, and here's the pot calling the kettle black,, Hmm let me see, yes, just about at the end of page 6 on this thread,, Most case owners by the way get sort of, well wordy. You're coming along quite nicely, LOL

But when reading a good book, do not skip pages,, I agree though, twas a bit wordy (you're getting to the juicy section now, learned all about bungee cords)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
74 Posts
Discussion Starter #87
Few questions.
1) Benefit or not. Was thinking of cutting out floor between tower and seat. Then a new piece, cut in two pieces, and 1 1/2 inches in front of forward TVC mount screw. The rear piece welded back in the maintain rigidity and the front with two lips to snug up under frame and secure with bolts. Purpose? Removable piece allows access to front of TCV and the various hook ups and adjustments. I really had a problem with the accessing the fwd / rev rod as well as the lift rod. Know that once adjusted there shouldn't be a lot to do, but it certainly would be easier.

121636


2) An earlier discussion (posts #54/55) mentioned clutch engagement lever for pulley on front of engine. I have a Tee-handle that seems to be for that, but no engagement arms nor is there any type of engagement clutch on the front. At least from what I can see. I mean all it did was run a mower deck, but it looks to me that it would always be running. How is it shut down?

From the left
121637


From the other side

121638


3)Regarding #2 I believe that this would be the deck ht adjust but was replaced by the hydraulic cylinder (you can see in the background) which I believe is controlled by large lever on right side of dash.

121639


4) I am going to lift out the engine and wondering which bolts to disconnect the hydraulic pump. A, B, or C?

121635


A) The red on the pump?
OR
B) The blue on the housing?
PERHAPS
C) Both.

MikeC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
74 Posts
Discussion Starter #88
LOL, and here's the pot calling the kettle black,, Hmm let me see, yes, just about at the end of page 6 on this thread,, Most case owners by the way get sort of, well wordy. You're coming along quite nicely, LOL

Thanks, taking that as a compliment!

But when reading a good book, do not skip pages,, I agree though, twas a bit wordy (you're getting to the juicy section now, learned all about bungee cords)
Maybe - I'll be interested to find some new uses. I order bungees by the bunch and type, ball large med and 4"small, the multi strand color packs of 25 -30 each, the supper stretch white and blue cord 24" -54" and of course many sizes of the old reliable harder black rubber. About the only style I haven't, nor will I ever order (maybe for my grand-kids) are the ones for
MikeC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
74 Posts
Discussion Starter #89
This is just a "bump" so hopefully can help with the answers to questions in Post 87.
Thanks in advance
MikeC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
74 Posts
Discussion Starter #91
Thank you Bob. Will this just slide off or is there anything special I should know? Doesn't seem to be a lot of room to pull the whole apparatus back to allow the engine to be freed up.
MikeC
 

·
Ingersoll Dealer
Joined
·
1,282 Posts
Thank you Bob. Will this just slide off or is there anything special I should know? Doesn't seem to be a lot of room to pull the whole apparatus back to allow the engine to be freed up.
MikeC
MikeC,

The pump coupling will just slide apart, you only need about 1/2" of travel to free it.

Bob
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
74 Posts
Discussion Starter #94
Well the road to success is paved with good intentions, but the freeze and thaw cycle certainly has opened up some pot holes. I was moving along just fine with the installation of the TCV, until it came time to hook up the lines. I was happy to beable to get it in the two original holes and as expected the two lines to the hydro motor did not fit, nor did I want to mess around trying to bend them. So had two lines made up. First pot hole. Gonna take some finagling to get fittings to line up. There is a plan but on hold because of another problem.
The two smaller lines for the mid lift cylinder fit just fine.
Then along comes the pot hole # 2 (the aforementioned other problem) The steel return line to the cooler will not fit.
121725


It had always looked tight, but even though the new TCV bolted in, it is longer up front by 1/2 - 3/4 inch.
So although it is possible to make it fit in it isn't at the proper angle to tighten it down. The bigger problem is that after cutting the four inch rubber coupler near the cooler there is no room to slide it forward because of the bend that go around the engine. As it was it was still rubbing on the engine.
121726


121727


121728


So the options as I saw it: 1) replace with a rubber line or 2) make more room.
For the time being I'm going with making more room. So for the third time out come the TCV and drilled two new mounting holes 7/8" further towards the rear.
121729


Had some smallish pieces of heavy16 gauge copper left from a copper roof cupola I built for my daughter some years back and bolted them through the new holes as a backed when I welded close the old ones. Keeps everything from dripping / burning through and just peels off leaving smooth inside.
121730


Moving it back also makes it possible to hook up the foward / reverse and the mid lift valve as the more forward position was to tight to fit them in.
So if this doesn't help the fit then guess I will go to a flexible hose but hopefully everything will come together.
And then we'll go back to tackling the motor hoses.
MikeC
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
5,998 Posts
Here's how I converted mine to the newer styled valve. I wish I\d have taken pictures of the plate, but didn't. The actual re and re of the valve, took less then an hour, including bending lines to fit. Retained the original mounting holes in the floorboard as I didn't want to blast a bunch of holes all over. I'm 90% sure I'd posted pictures of the conversion plate but can't seem to find them though, just scroll down this thread a bit to my post.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
74 Posts
Discussion Starter #96
Hadn't thought about an adapter plate but hopefully this will work out. If not, still have 3/4" of an inch to play with. :oops:
Not sure how I would go about bending the tubes. Just curious. Have the torches and have bent tubes with the spring wrappers and also a pipe bender but these wouldn't fit in due to bends already there. I'd be leery of hooking one end in place and then heating and pushing / pulling other end into place.
MikeC
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
5,998 Posts
Hadn't thought about an adapter plate but hopefully this will work out. If not, still have 3/4" of an inch to play with. :oops:
Not sure how I would go about bending the tubes. Just curious. Have the torches and have bent tubes with the spring wrappers and also a pipe bender but these wouldn't fit in due to bends already there. I'd be leery of hooking one end in place and then heating and pushing / pulling other end into place.
MikeC
When I did mine, bending tubes, it was remarkably easy,,

The only ones that need bending are the 2 from the transfer case motor. Mine, mounted on tight onto the motor, but not connected to the valve,, heated the first one to a cherry color, (in approx location I wanted it to move) and just aligned it to the new location on the valve. Very easy to do, I worried more then the time it took, maybe 10 minutes after I figured out the first tube. I did not use acetenyl, just a hand torch, with MAP (yellow bottle). Of course, this also implies your tubes are empty and cleaned of oil, which yours would be by now. On the picture I posted, the slight bend on the one tube visible,, that's because about 2 years prior, when I went to remove it, the swivel fitting was locked to the tube.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
5,998 Posts
In your case,
To mount the valve, since you have both valves in hand, start with the old one, sitting flat on a piece of cardboard with the front face of valve sitting overtop one edge of the cardboard. Mark holes for valve mounting. Next, mount new valve, with face of valve same location, directly over edge of cardboard, and mark mounting holes. Next, remove valve, and you now have a template for holes. First 2 front holes, align to the existing old holes on the floorboard. 2 back holes, align to the new holes you'd need to drill in floorboards.
This way, all connections that go towards the front of tractor will all fit correctly, and the only ones that "need work" are the 2 tubes that go to the drive motor. You now have 2 choices, either bend tubes like I did on the first 446 I have, or, you can go with soft lines like I did on my second 446,, (the one you mentioned above, pictures are there as well). I will say thought, tubes are easier to bend and considerably cheaper, then the 2 soft lines with fittings,,, Soft lines can be made to look good as well though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
74 Posts
Discussion Starter #99
OK new TCV all hooked up (almost). The new lines fit great
121768


121769


and moving the valve back the 7/8" did the trick to get the return line back in place. Not only that w/ a slightly longer piece of hose, 4" is called for but got a piece of 6" from my hydraulic guy and cut to make it fit which ended up being 5". The four might have been enough but first of all I had top slice it to get it off and you can always make them smaller but stretching bigger just don't get it done.
121770

And if you notice, there is now a gap between the line where it comes around the engine. There wasn't before.

And now for those of you that may have noticed the empty fitting on the right side of the TCV... well that's the "almost" that I mentioned. I knew about the leaks in the motor hydro tubes which I remedied, but while looking at the area around the pump and line behind the dash I found this.
121772


After taking it out and flexing the hose it turned into this.
121773


New one ordered and coming my way.
MikeC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
74 Posts
Discussion Starter #100
Big problem? Little problem? Or not a problem at all? Was gonna post this in the Kohler forum but in the interest of continuity figured I'd ask here., Like I mentioned earlier I'm waiting on hydraulic hose so started taking stock of the engine. A '72 K321A Spec: 60209D . And it appears there is nothing left from the governor other than the shaft in the block. All linkage and associated clips are gone. And it also appears that not all parts are still available and the ones that are... well looks like it would be $150 and still not have everything. Any and all control of engine rpms are from manual adjusting of throttle cable. I know the PO was running this way and thinking worse case scenario is that I will have to continue to do so. How much of a problem is this?
MikeC
 
81 - 100 of 122 Posts
Top