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Holding valve

5489 Views 10 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  john_holbik
Has any anyone ever come up with an altenative to the factory holding valve. I see them from time to time on ebay go for $200 and more.

Could this be used? ... =hydraulic
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I think that would lock the wheels up.

I've seen this brought up more than a few times and the answer always seems to be no. It sucks there isn't a cheaper alternative.
From the description of this valve it sounds like it's closer to the check valve that Mr onetwo was talking about for a 648 forklift. Am I wrong? I wasn't picturing something this big for a check valve.

Brand new PRINCE double pilot-operated lock valve designed to lock a cylinder in place when control valve is in the neutral position. Also acts as a safety device to prevent cylinder movement when pump is inactive and valve is accidentally operated. Pilot-operated lock valves may chatter when used in cylinder circuits with heavy loads. A restricting orifice can be plumbed into the hydraulic line to reduce this problem."
case448 said:
Has any anyone ever come up with an altenative to the factory holding valve. I see them from time to time on ebay go for $200 and more.

Could this be used? ... =hydraulic
CASE 448,Do not use this valve!!! I have tried a similar unit and it will throw you off the tractor when it closes.

I tried one that I had in stock on my 644 and it felt like I was going to rip the rear end out!! It did hold 100%
on a hill though.

Regards, Tom
How is it differant from what case uses? From looking at the exploded views of both they look the same. Is it that the springs are too stiff? I see it says the pilot ratio is 4:1 maybe that's why it does not work.
This discussion has come up several times in the past on other forums but has never been resolved to my satisfaction. In my opinion, there is only one way to come up with a definitive answer and that is for someone to try one of those valves out on their tractor and compare the operation of the valve to another tractor of the same model that has the OEM holding valve kit on it. Jump from one tractor to the other and put them through identical testing.

I am nominating case448 for this experiment. All those in favor, post your affirmative vote in this thread. :sidelaugh:

So...... all of the above aside, let's talk about the practicality of using an aftermarket valve such as the one referred to in this thread. For argument's sake, let's say that valve works. That's only half the problem. The other half is the mounting and connecting of that valve to the tractor. Take a look under your tractor and tell me where there is space to place that valve where it will not impact on ground clearance? It's bad enough on a Hi-Wheel model but on a Lo-Pro series, you will constantly be concerned about snagging things if you take the tractor off-road into rough terrain. On top of the clearance issue, you will be faced with purchasing several hydraulic fittings and custom hoses so that you can connect this valve. Once you add those costs to the price of this aftermarket valve, it doesn't look like such a bargain any more. The price gap narrows to the point where you have to ask yourself if all the aggravation is actually worth the few bucks being saved?

While you dislike the idea of paying $200.00 for an OEM holding valve kit, the fact remains that you can install the correct kit on your tractor in about one hour's time and you are good to go. There is no engineering involved or running around to chase parts. The valve kit you buy today will likely never go down in value and most likely will increase in value as time continues to pass. I can't say that an aftermarket valve and a bunch of hoses will do the same thing ten years from now because hoses have a limited life expectancy.

The other day I read some advice on another forum by someone who believes himself to be knowledgeable about these tractors. He told the person who was asking about holding valve kits that he should TRY to buy a valve that had all the lines with it. That was just another piece of bad advice in a long list of bad advice that comes from this person. Case produced several Holding Valve Kits and if you buy the WRONG kit, it will come with the wrong lines and you won't be able to hook it up. Secondly, if you do not get a complete kit, then you are screwed again because almost all of the steel lines are NLA (no longer available) from Eastman. may get lucky by phoning every Ingersoll dealer to see if they happen to have the line or lines you seek gathering dust on a parts shelf but the odds are not in your favour.

We have a FAQ's section here that has a document that speaks about holding valves. You may find it to be an interesting read.
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I am not a hydraulic expert I have a 69 Case 442. I bought a pilot operated check valve on Ebay a few years ago with the intention of putting it on the 442.
Here's how I read what would happen.
It would work perfectly as a holding valve on the hills but if you hit the brake and the spool went to neutral the wheels would lockup instantly . Whenever you shifted from reverse to forward or vice versa while moving the wheels would momentarily lock as you passed the neutral position because the valve would be doing it's intended job of locking in neutral position.
If you examine the drawing of the travel holding valve you will see there is a small passage way drilled between the forward and reverse side this allows the oil to flow when the travel valve is activated other wise the wheels would lock. I was going to drill my valve make a passage then tap and screw a plug in the hole but decided to install a late model travel hold valve.
On my 69 the lift uses a separate valve and the stick is on it's own on the right.I am putting the new style lift lever on by the right side of the steering wheel and leaveing the old lift valve and lines in and install quick couplers and use it as a PTO.
Hope this info helps because all the info I ever got was will it work- boy somebody should try it did anybody ever try it etc etc.
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:goodpost: :goodpost:

Kash.... you are totally correct about the answers given when this topic has been raised in the past. No one wants to put out the time, effort and money to test those check valves. Years ago, there was a cereal ad on TV with three young brothers. The two older ones did not want to try this new cereal their mom bought for them so it was a "You try it" no .... "You try it" conversation between the two older siblings until one of them said "I know..Let Mikey try it." In true brotherly love, they got the youngest child become their lab rat, thus scarring him mentally for life. :sidelaugh: Mikey tried the cereal and liked it but he probably became a "cereal killer" later in life because of that experience. :lol:

I agree with you on that issue that the OEM holding valve has extra internal porting that the standard check valve does not have nor need. I have four or five of the standard valves kicking around at my shop because we used them to control hydraulic cylinders on my graders. However, I do recall a thread on MTF about a tractor someone bought that had one of these cylinder check valves on it that was piped in as a holding valve. The owner had never experienced using a tractor with the OEM holding valve on it so it was pointless to ask him if he noticed any big differences. I don't disagree with your analogy regarding how you would expect that valve to work but I'm just waiting for someone to make the side-by-side comparison so I don't have to. :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh:
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So Tom is this valve that 448 mentioned equivalent to the fork lift check valve?
Yes it is. Surplus Sales often have some amazing deals on products.
Here is how I envision the results of putting a valve from a back hoe on a Case garden tractor.
You pull the stick on the back hoe to lower the boom you release the stick to neutral you want the boom to stop and stay in that spot it does because the valve locks the ports to stop oil flow.The pilot valve has an in port and an out port what ever oil flows in the one port controls what flows in the other port so no oil in no oil out an effective boom lock.
You put the same valve on the Case you pull the stick to go ahead oil flows thru one port thru the motor out the other port works great you head down hill hit the brake travel spool goes to neutral there is no oil flow thru the pilot valve both ports close. The moving wheels act like a big pump. They lock up, the pressure builds up your neck snaps back in shock and you skid your way down the hill.The oem valve from Case has the passage way between the two ports so a small amount of oil can circulate when this happens Thus relieving the pressure and allowing the wheels to turn at a reduced rate which eliminates the runaway condition we all hate so much.
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