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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The return hose blew again on my 446 after about 1 hour of mowing. The hose was hot as all get out (I was going to use other words here, but thought better of it) . I think the oil was getting hot enough to cause the nipple on the tank to get supple. I have an aftermarket holding valve, that I think may be part of the problem.



I am going to replace it with the factory one I got for my 222.

Is there a big difference besides appearance in the pumps from a 77 224 and my 78 446. I have a pump from the 224 I picked up for parts.





Here is the pump on my 1978 446



Here is the one on my 1980 222.



Does anyone know if the pumps are the same as far as output goes?

I am at mt whits end (and trust me I don't have a lot to spare)

I am going to be pulling at a minimum the aftermarket holding valve, I am thinking it is causing too much pressure and resulting in too much heat. I have a constant hydraulic pump whine when running. I never had a problem until I got the engine running at the proper RPM's. The PO had it running at 2400 and I of course had to change things. Yes the engine is running properly at 3450 R's according to my digital tach ( verified at work on the spindle of my CNC mill).

Thanks
Terry the troubled.
 

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What happened, Terry? Couldn't get the information you were looking for over on MTF? :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh:

All Case GT's essentially use pumps that are very close when it comes to GPM. A pump from a 1977 224 will work fine in a 446 providing that pump is putting out close to its rated GPM and has no other problems. If it came from a Case tractor and it will bolt to the pump mount on your tractor, then the rest of the issues would be connecting the INLET side to the reservoir and possibly the diameter of the pump shaft. Half-inch is common but 5/8" shafts have been used with replacement pumps.


You can try removing that holding valve to see if it makes any difference in temperature but if you have not taken the temperature of your allegedly hot oil, how will you know if removing that valve is actually making any difference?

Your engine is supposed to spin at 3600 RPM at wide open throttle, not 3450.

Any more questions?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
No response at MTF. I just need to get to the bottom of this. I have blown the hose off 3 times in the last 3 outings. Gets frustrating to say the least. I have a few dead spots in the yard from HOT oil, and at 1.5 gallons at a time the supply is going down fast. The Linemar engine, I have heard is designed to run at 3450, but I could be wrong. Either way 3450 is still better than 2400, I'm not gonna rock the boat over 150 r's. I just wanted some reassurance on the pumps before I take all the time to change them out.
Thanks
 

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You should be able to make it work even if both of the pumps have a different size shaft. Like Tom said either of them will bolt to the mount.

You still have both of the lovejoy's I presume?


Replacing a pump is fun isn't it? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I just put a "new" one in mine about a month ago.
 

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Hydriv said:
What happened, Terry? Couldn't get the information you were looking for over on MTF? :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh:
The person with the answers got kicked out over there.
Now he's chained to this one spot and a few smaller sand boxes that still let him play. :wife:
And the world suffers.
 

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cp7 said:
Hydriv said:
What happened, Terry? Couldn't get the information you were looking for over on MTF? :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh:
The person with the answers got kicked out over there.
Now he's chained to this one spot and a few smaller sand boxes that still let him play. :wife:
And the world suffers.
Yeah but its a Looooooooong muhfutin chain. :sidelaugh: :canada: :thumbsup:

Mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
boomers_influence said:
terry

i have seen both sets of pics.
i still do not see what hose you are referring to???

thank you boomer
P/S welcome
Boomer, it is the return line on the bottom of the tank. I replaced the hose 3 times already, so I can safely count out an inferior hose.

I took off the makeshift holding valve tonight and put on the hard lines. No holding valve at this point. I am taking this one step at a time. The oil got so hot I could almost pinch the nipple on the bottom of the oil tank with my fingers. Gonna see if the holding valve was causing too much pressure resulting in the oil getting over heated. I will get this fixed if it takes me the rest of my life, or divorce court which ever comes first. Mamma is NOT happy at this point.
 

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If I recall correctly, Terry's plastic oil tank has a damaged outlet and he tried to repair it with a brass fitting. However the supply hose to the pump keeps popping off causing him to lose 6 quarts of fresh oil every time.

My advice would be to purchase the correct oil tank for the PIN of that tractor from another member, ebay or Joe Hemmi and then buy a new J-hose from Brian. Use the proper clamps to hold the hose on and that should put an end to the problem. Making sure that the oil tank's cap has an open breather hole would also be a good idea because the wrong cap or a plugged cap could cause pressure to build up in the tank as the oil heats up and expands.
 

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Terry

Need more info. :thumbsup:

What kind of clamp are you using on the fitting now ?

Were any of the three J-hoses new OEM ?

Have you had a pressure gauge hooked up yet?

Blondie
If the tank fitting was supple enough to pinch then I doubt it's his tank with the special connection. :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I have the proper tank and a spare that is just the same. I tried the brass fitting to see if I could keep the hose on the fitting. The fitting or nipple on the tank was NOT damaged. I am using hose rated for the application. The hose clamps are standard stainless worm gear clamps. I still think the problem was excess heat and possibly non venting. Time will tell.
 

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wurkenman said:
I have the proper tank and a spare that is just the same. I tried the brass fitting to see if I could keep the hose on the fitting. The fitting or nipple on the tank was NOT damaged. I am using hose rated for the application. The hose clamps are standard stainless worm gear clamps. I still think the problem was excess heat and possibly non venting. Time will tell.
Terry

I would get rid of the stainless clamps and use the original type clamp that you have shown on the spare pump.

You say that the hose you are using is rated for the application :headscratcher: I've never seen a rating in any of the manuals.

They make allot of hydraulic return lines and if yours is rated for more than 2 or 3 hundred pounds then your wideband clamp will have a difficult time doing it's job.

Will you give us the Serial # of your tractor or at least the year ? I would like to look up the proper manual for your tractor. Maybe you know the manual # I need to refer to?

99

Your tractor got a plastic tank ?

:canada:
 

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In addition to my answer on MTF (measure pressure and temp, don't guess) you need to get rid of the geared band clamp.

They just don't work as well as the originals. Too much clamp area spreads the pressure and the clamp really doesn't provide a 360deg clamping force due to friction between the hose and wide clamp.

For years the Japanese have used a screw type wire clamp that works great. Didn't used to like 'em because they're kind hard to install but they really provide a good seal.
 

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I don't know if Terry's oil is running at a normal temp or it is overheated. However, he has brought that subject up in this thread.

The temp of your oil is definitely important. Oil that is too hot can cause rapid deterioration of vulnerable hydraulic components such as hoses and plastic reservoirs which have been known to distort and to have layers on the inside peel away and cause blockage of the outlet supplying oil to the pump. It is important to keep the oil cooler clean at all times. Remove grass clippings that can cover the cooler. Check both sides of the cooler. If the cooler is caked with oil and dirt, then spray a degreasing agent on it and use light water pressure from a garden hose to rinse it off. Pressure washers can have enough force to cause the fins to flatten and that will reduce the air flow. The fins themselves must be undamaged and tight to the tubing or proper heat transfer from the tube to the fins and to the air will not take place. The fan must be in place with all blades present and undamaged. A new fan is a $20.00 item from the dealer.

If you are wondering about how hot your oil is, go to the Dollar store and buy a meat thermometer. The ideal temp for the oil is 180 F but on a day where the ambient temp is plus 90 F, the oil temp can rise to 220 F if the tractor is working hard rototilling or using another motorized implement strenuously such as the Hydra-Cutter.

High heat will also damage the oil causing it to break down and lose its viscosity.


If you modify your tractor's hydraulic system in any way or if you hook up a non-Case attachment, you must be sure that all hoses, fittings and other devices are capable of flowing at least 10 GPM. Undersize equipment will cause heat build-up in the oil that the cooler cannot dissipate fast enough.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Will keep everyone posted. Got the hard lines on the tractor and backed it out of the garage. Engine just shut down, NO SPARK. Am in the process of replacing the ignition module as we speak.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
99flhr said:
^ Good thing that you`re the type that never gives up. :thumbup: :thumbup:
Too far into it to quit now. My wife however is becoming extremely agitated. See can't see the benefit in selling a 3 year old Cub for a 30 year old tractor that I have to work on all the time. I try to reassure her that I am just fixing all the stuff that the PO's neglected. NOT HELPING.
 
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