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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Really need some opinions here...


I found a really nice 'All Hydraulic' with low hours and in great shape...But...

I am just not sold on the all hydraulic approach, not to mention the lack of used implements to make this tractor as versatile as my current 446. I love the power steering! And the overall upgrade of a newer machine but am having a difficult time justifying the extra expense.

It seems that these 'rare' GT's don't have the same track record of the beloved three digit models.

What do you guys think?
 

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Stork

Their resale is generally lower in my area, I personally have not used one, but they seem to languish on CL longer at a lower price than say a 4020. That and more hydraulics to maintain and expensive to repair. Also your 446 (B43-48M) Has IMHO the best Onan ever put into a Case\Ingersoll GT. My 2 cts!

thanks
Jim
 

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Stork,
Welcome to the forum. The 4000 series are virtually the same machine as the 400 and equally as rugged. Other than the mower decks and snowcasters (without modifications), most, if not all, of the hydraulic attachments that work on a 400 series machine with a hydraulic PTO will work on a 4000 series to include the rototiller and log splitters.

Are you looking at a 4100 series machine or 4000?
Tim
 

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The all hydraulic machines were only made in 1992-93 and attachments are rare along with being expensive to repair. The diesel engine all hydraulic machines are more rare and more expensive to maintain. Best to stay away from both.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Stork,
Welcome to the forum. The 4000 series are virtually the same machine as the 400 and equally as rugged. Other than the mower decks and snowcasters (without modifications), most, if not all, of the hydraulic attachments that work on a 400 series machine with a hydraulic PTO will work on a 4000 series to include the rototiller and log splitters.

Are you looking at a 4100 series machine or 4000?
Tim
4100 series
 

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If 4100, then I agree with Bob. The all hydraulic machines are great but attachments are hard to find and a bit pricey to repair.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
If 4100, then I agree with Bob. The all hydraulic machines are great but attachments are hard to find and a bit pricey to repair.
What amazes me is how little information there is on the internet about the 4100 series.
ive searched everywhere looking for mods to attach a belt drive snow caster and aside from one project reposted in different places...haven't found much useful info at all.

I'm not the brightest candle in the box but everyone seems to try and change the implement to use a hydraulic motor, I would think mounting a hydraulic motor with a pulley where the pto pulley should be would make more sense. And it would allow full use of other front mounted pto powered implements. Gotta be a better way!
 

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I have owned three or four 4100 series, most of them had or ended up having problems with the hydraulics. At first I thought that they were great, but now that I have sold them off, I personally would suggest trying to find something different. A lot of people rave about the power steering and I have it on two of my tractors and again, personally, I like it a lot, but I don't think that it is as responsive as a non-PS unit (as far as 4000 series tractors go). If the tractor was a loader unit, that is a whole different discussion and I love it, but again, not as responsive.

Bottom line, in my opinion, don't get caught up it just for a PS tractor. If your 446 runs well, I wouldn't jump ship. From what I have read in the past, your neck of the woods isn't real "plentiful" in Case/Ingersoll. If you do decide to look at it, make sure you mow some thick grass to validate that the motor on the deck is working properly. For clarification, the tractor is great, but the attachments are the downfall and you can't put a standard RM48 with a belt on the tractor because it doesn't have a front PTO.
 

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Another consideration, if you were to source hydraulic attachments for the all hydraulic (AH) GTs:

http://casecoltingersoll.com/showthread.php/23862-Special-Notice-to-Ingersoll-AH-Tractor-Owners

"Special Notice to Ingersoll AH Tractor Owners

Special Notice for Members that have the limited production All Hydraulic (AH) Ingersoll Garden Tractors: The standard tractor implements (HS24W chipper, 1048/HC48 hydracutter, HVFC/B Vacs, and HRM48H mower) should never be used on a AH tractor. The speed of the implement is a basic design consideration and running the AH oil flow GPM will significantly over speed the implement. They are not design rated for those speeds and can result in dangerous structural failures or simply rapid bearing failure."





Rich
 

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And it would allow full use of other front mounted pto powered implements. Gotta be a better way!
The concept of switching to a front mounted electric PTO has been flushed out a bit elsewhere.

While technically that is completely feasible, in the 4100 series the hydraulic cooler is directly in the way. There is not sufficient space for a clutch and no ready mechanism to mount a fan once the clutch is there (though today's small DC fans might work mounted on the cooler).

In reality this means reconfiguring the hydraulic system to look nearly identical to a 4000 series, with a side mount cooler. Not a job for the faint of heart, as the tower area is much more congested on a 4100 series with the tandem pump and associated plumbing.

Yes, if you had a really nice 4100 and a good donor 4000, then all the parts could be swapped over ... but a lot of work.

Brian
www.salempwr.com
 

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That add was listed mid August. I put a link up here in the classified section when I seen it.

IMO I would keep the 446 and wait for a regular 4000 at least then the attachments are easier to get and you can use the older stuff as well.

With a knowledge of hydraulics the 4100 could be adapted to use the older equipment safely, but it would cost money to ensure that it was done safely.


From what I understand is that the AH models have the higher flow system with higher pressures and that the system is protected by one main relief valve. Verses the other models which have multiple reliefs (PTO, TCV, etc).

Snowcaster: If you researched enough data I'm sure you could find a generic hydraulic drive motor that would operate under the flow/pressures of the tractor and could drive the older unit. Pulley size to the caster could be changed to get you to the proper RPM.


Tiller and other equipment: All other older equipment could be used with the tractor safely if the flow was decreased (flow controller/divider) and pressure protection was provided (additional power beyond spool valve or external relief). This would be expensive as you would need the specialty parts and the relief path from either valve would need to go directly to the return or tank. This would also rob drive power if plumbed in before the TCV when the relief goes.

For custom fabrication you should have suitable pressure testing equipment (gauges, flow meter) and I also have a small hand held tach that helps verify RPM for determining drive ratio's. Always verify the pressure (and rated flow) for hydraulic components. These systems should be respected at all times.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I just wanted to say thanks to all of you guys for your input!

It will be hard to walk away from what appears to be a nice solid tractor :oops:

But as we all know, there's always another one...
 

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Yah.

Who knows how desperate they are to sell?

There was a 4018 near Edmonton this spring and a 30xx somewhere. Out of my price range. I'm sure more will pop up. Nothing wrong with the older ones though. FYI. I'm always watching kijiji and post decent deals, rare units or loaders in the classified section.
 
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