[Greg]

This may be a hot topic...

I am looking at possibly putting a hydraulic drive motor on a Bercomac snowblower which turns at 3600 rpm to cure the belt drive fiasco. I am looking at a 0.50 cubic 1,992RPM 141 inch lbs 4.5 GPM.
By the math I would need a 10.5 inch to 11 inch pulley on the drive motor but I guess what I am asking is there enough torque int he drive motor to do the job...

Fire away guys..

Thanks

 

[bhildret]

Not a bad thought ... you've been working on this one for a while!

I think the issue at hand will be more HP than torque. You can gear it to get the torque, but power is simply limited by the pump on the tractor.

The Ingersoll AH tractors used a larger hydraulic pump ... about 25% more flow and hence about 25% more horsepower out the hydraulics.

The standard hydraulics are limited to about 11-13HP, as I recall. That must run the blower and drive the tractor.

I believe the 2 stage blower is a bit less power efficient than a single stage ... couldn't quote numbers, but there are greater mechanical losses involved.

I know from experience that our 16 hp Onans can truck right through with a 48" snowcaster, but a good load does work them hard. The belt drive (well adjusted clutch) is not the limiting factor ... they don't slip ... but rather the engine torque/power.

So ... the hydraulics will surely run the snowblower ... but the speed at which you can load it with snow will be horsepower limited. I don't have any fine feeling on the Berco and 11HP compatibility ... but you may be wishing for more when it is done.

Brian

 

[Greg]

Not a bad thought ... you've been working on this one for a while!

I think the issue at hand will be more HP than torque. You can gear it to get the torque, but power is simply limited by the pump on the tractor.

The Ingersoll AH tractors used a larger hydraulic pump ... about 25% more flow and hence about 25% more horsepower out the hydraulics.

The standard hydraulics are limited to about 11-13HP, as I recall. That must run the blower and drive the tractor.

I believe the 2 stage blower is a bit less power efficient than a single stage ... couldn't quote numbers, but there are greater mechanical losses involved.

I know from experience that our 16 hp Onans can truck right through with a 48" snowcaster, but a good load does work them hard. The belt drive (well adjusted clutch) is not the limiting factor ... they don't slip ... but rather the engine torque/power.

So ... the hydraulics will surely run the snowblower ... but the speed at which you can load it with snow will be horsepower limited. I don't have any fine feeling on the Berco and 11HP compatibility ... but you may be wishing for more when it is done.

Brian

I have a (10.5 GPM pump @3600 rpm and 5.88 at 2000 rpm) that is going on the tractor and it will handle all of the hydraulics. Plus my engine is upgraded to a 20 hp. Crank, pistons and rods so I believe the torque increase with the increase in hyd flow will do the trick. But I may be way off. Tractor wheel speed is not an issue due to the way my driveway is. Uphill and downhill so speeds are low.
Greg

 

[Hydriv]

This may be a hot topic...

I am looking at possibly putting a hydraulic drive motor on a Bercomac snowblower which turns at 3600 rpm to cure the belt drive fiasco. I am looking at a 0.50 cubic 1,992RPM 141 inch lbs 4.5 GPM.
By the math I would need a 10.5 inch to 11 inch pulley on the drive motor but I guess what I am asking is there enough torque int he drive motor to do the job...

Fire away guys..

Thanks

Greg,
I don't recall which tractor you have nor do I know what pump is in it or how worn that pump is but for the purposes of discussion, I will tell you this.

Let's assume that your pump is still capable of delivering a solid 8 gallons of oil per minute when the engine is spinning at 3600 RPM.

8 gpm X 231 = 1848 cubic inches

If you had a hydraulic motor that was 1 cubic inch in displacement, then it would spin at 1848 RPM. If you use a motor with .50 cu in displacement the RPM doubles to 3696 rpm or ....pretty much the speed you desire. No belt or pulley would be needed. Instead, you would use a LoveJoy coupler to connect the motor shaft directly to the input shaft of the gearbox on the blower. You need to use a geroller or gerotor or orbit style motor. Three names-same item.

I have no idea how much HP is needed to run a 2 stage Berco. If I were you, I'd be on the phone to their engineering department and talking with them about your idea. They produce hydraulic drive blowers. Therefore, they will have already done all the calculations and can tell you more than any of us can. As already pointed out, there are limitations regarding the maximum amount of HP the standard hydraulic system in these tractors can produce.

Three things are at play. Oil volume, operating pressure and engine HP. If you attempt to increase either volume or pressure, then more HP is needed. If you increase the volume beyond a certain point, then the size of the hydraulic lines, cooler, control valve etc get exceeded and excess heat is created. If you increase the HP from 16 to 32, the OEM hydraulic system really does not care because volume and pressure will dictate how much HP is delivered to the drive motor, not the engine HP.

As tempting as hydraulic drive may be, I personally believe that sticking with a drive belt will give you the best results. In order to convert a Case snowblower that was designed for a 3 digit tractor to work on a 4 digit Ingersoll, the counter-shaft that the driven pulley is mounted to has to be replaced with one that is a bit longer. I think that you may find that this needs to be done with the Berco but I don't believe that it is impossible to solve this rotation issue.

 

[Greg]

I just found a Cub Cadet 3165 tractor with a 48 inch PTO style blower for the price of a new Berco blower so this is the way I will be going. Also come with a 48 inch deck .. So no more figuring...
So I will have a dedicated mower and blower... WAHOOOO
Then I can concentrate on the tiller and loader now... I am glad that I wait before I jump into something and this time it paid off...

Just a road trip at 3.82 per gallon OUCH... we are in for an interesting summer are we ready for $5 per gallon.

Greg

 

[eBoyDog]

Just a road trip at 3.82 per gallon OUCH... we are in for an interesting summer are we ready for $5 per gallon.

Dang, I thought prices were high around here!!!

In central Missouri it's only $3.29. I was in Illinois last month and it was $3.25 which had my head shaking since at that time is was only $2.85 in Missouri and I had people there telling me it was headed up fifty cents in a month due to new taxes.

At one time it was no concern to drive 5 hours to get something and the cost of gas was an after thought, any more it's a major consideration for me to fill up the ole F150 twice during a day's drive.

 

[Greg]

What is funny they say it is shipping that keeps the gas high in this neck of the woods but the trucks drive right by here when they go load in Quebec...