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412 Posts
possible real demonstrator? :think:
http://reading.craigslist.org/grd/2309512861.html
http://reading.craigslist.org/grd/2309512861.html
Mastiff fell asleep-444 Demo on C/L
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Re: Mastiff fell asleep
CASE 444 Demonstrater - $2500 (sinking spring)
Date: 2011-04-06, 5:20PM EDT
Reply to: [email protected] [Errors when replying to ads?]
Case 444 Demostrater lawn & garden tractor, in great shape many new parts, engine completely overhauled and runs good, mower deck was rebuilt, and sheet metal and decals in great condition. call for more deatils (610)-406-3005 Thanks
* Location: sinking spring
* it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
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CASE 444 Demonstrater - $2500 (sinking spring)
Date: 2011-04-06, 5:20PM EDT
Reply to: [email protected] [Errors when replying to ads?]
Case 444 Demostrater lawn & garden tractor, in great shape many new parts, engine completely overhauled and runs good, mower deck was rebuilt, and sheet metal and decals in great condition. call for more deatils (610)-406-3005 Thanks
* Location: sinking spring
* it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
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1,801 Posts
Re: Mastiff fell asleep
Yes-Indeed. I do fall asleep early. But thankfully we have dedicated members to take care of business in my absence. What a beautiful tractor!
Yes-Indeed. I do fall asleep early. But thankfully we have dedicated members to take care of business in my absence. What a beautiful tractor!
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8,018 Posts
Here's where BBY pics really come in handy. Thank you.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1017&hilit=demonstrator
This current one looks in better cosmetic shape than 446 we looked at on E Bay.
Seems like they have become priced way up. Will this be the norm from now on?
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1017&hilit=demonstrator
This current one looks in better cosmetic shape than 446 we looked at on E Bay.
Seems like they have become priced way up. Will this be the norm from now on?
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
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412 Posts
Glad to bring it to everyones attention.
It does seem hinky to me though.
The left front wheel looks like it has overspray, and the deck tensioner as well as tower bolts seem to be painted? Makes me wonder if its a real demonstrator, or prettied up regular 444?
This would definitley require in person inspection. If anyone looks at it please post your findings.
It does seem hinky to me though.
The left front wheel looks like it has overspray, and the deck tensioner as well as tower bolts seem to be painted? Makes me wonder if its a real demonstrator, or prettied up regular 444?
This would definitley require in person inspection. If anyone looks at it please post your findings.
Out of curiosity, I phoned the Seller.
Here's what I found out.
According to him, the previous owner rebuilt the engine and the deck. Bottom line....the Seller has no invoices to back up the claims made and Buyer's are expected to rely on his word. He could not tell me if the block was bored or any other detail about the engine work. The same holds true with the deck rebuild.
This is a basic 444 that has had a holding valve installed,.....which he claims is worth $700.00. No PTO, no hitch other than the stock tow plate....no nothing. It should have a J-deck under it. Perhaps it does but if so, the chute has been hacked off of it.
He claims that the decals are original. I asked him for the serial number but he did not have it close by.
To me.....the decals look too good to be true. I've seen quite a few Demo's and have never seen one that had decals as perfect as the ones on this tractor. I have bought a lot of tractors just on the strength of photos, as Jack will confirm, but this one bothers me.
Secondly, while I am pleased to see the hobby grow, I am not pleased to see the prices for these tractors jump into what I call the "stupid zone". The whole idea behind collecting lawn and garden tractors was because of affordability. Joe Average wage earner could easily afford to own a half-dozen restored tractors and haul them to local shows for some fun. Rising prices just push more and more people out of the hobby instead of bringing them into it. And the worst thing of all, is that no one will PAY you a dime for what you put into one of these tractors to bring it back from the dead.
Who wants to pay $13,000.00 for that fake T-90 that a certain unnamed person was demanding? Who wants to tie up $13,000.00 of their hard-earned cash into something that may not appreciate in value as quickly as leaving that money in your savings account?
And just because two idiots chased the price of that last Demo to record levels, that doesn't mean that's what a Demo is now worth. The ONLY people who push that so-called logic are those who own one or are charged with auctioning one off. Anyone who has attended public auctions or watched auctions on e-Bay can cite instances where they have watched two people with too much testosterone, duke it out in an absurd pissing match that ends with one of them going home with a used object that could be bought brand new with a warranty for less money.
When certain items begin to command big money, out come the profiteers who create fakes so that they can catch the unwary and unsophisticated. The more money that's involved, the greater the lengths that these counterfeiters will go to so that they can make a fast buck. Imagine how pissed you would be if you paid $2500.00 for that GD, took it to a show and Steve, Herm and Jim all told you that it was a fake. Realistically, this would be a $500.00 tractor without those GD decals on it.
Here's what I found out.
According to him, the previous owner rebuilt the engine and the deck. Bottom line....the Seller has no invoices to back up the claims made and Buyer's are expected to rely on his word. He could not tell me if the block was bored or any other detail about the engine work. The same holds true with the deck rebuild.
This is a basic 444 that has had a holding valve installed,.....which he claims is worth $700.00. No PTO, no hitch other than the stock tow plate....no nothing. It should have a J-deck under it. Perhaps it does but if so, the chute has been hacked off of it.
He claims that the decals are original. I asked him for the serial number but he did not have it close by.
To me.....the decals look too good to be true. I've seen quite a few Demo's and have never seen one that had decals as perfect as the ones on this tractor. I have bought a lot of tractors just on the strength of photos, as Jack will confirm, but this one bothers me.
Secondly, while I am pleased to see the hobby grow, I am not pleased to see the prices for these tractors jump into what I call the "stupid zone". The whole idea behind collecting lawn and garden tractors was because of affordability. Joe Average wage earner could easily afford to own a half-dozen restored tractors and haul them to local shows for some fun. Rising prices just push more and more people out of the hobby instead of bringing them into it. And the worst thing of all, is that no one will PAY you a dime for what you put into one of these tractors to bring it back from the dead.
Who wants to pay $13,000.00 for that fake T-90 that a certain unnamed person was demanding? Who wants to tie up $13,000.00 of their hard-earned cash into something that may not appreciate in value as quickly as leaving that money in your savings account?
And just because two idiots chased the price of that last Demo to record levels, that doesn't mean that's what a Demo is now worth. The ONLY people who push that so-called logic are those who own one or are charged with auctioning one off. Anyone who has attended public auctions or watched auctions on e-Bay can cite instances where they have watched two people with too much testosterone, duke it out in an absurd pissing match that ends with one of them going home with a used object that could be bought brand new with a warranty for less money.
When certain items begin to command big money, out come the profiteers who create fakes so that they can catch the unwary and unsophisticated. The more money that's involved, the greater the lengths that these counterfeiters will go to so that they can make a fast buck. Imagine how pissed you would be if you paid $2500.00 for that GD, took it to a show and Steve, Herm and Jim all told you that it was a fake. Realistically, this would be a $500.00 tractor without those GD decals on it.
Hydriv Wrote - "Secondly, while I am pleased to see the hobby grow, I am not pleased to see the prices for these tractors jump into what I call the "stupid zone". "
I've gotten out of a couple of hobbies similar to this because of this "stupid zone". There are a lot of people who buy something because they know someone who has something cool and they want to be cool but really dont know what they bought. Its always cheaper to buy something completely done already so to people who want something for the 'cool' factor they'll just pay a bit too high of a price and not get their hands dirty.
I've gotten out of a couple of hobbies similar to this because of this "stupid zone". There are a lot of people who buy something because they know someone who has something cool and they want to be cool but really dont know what they bought. Its always cheaper to buy something completely done already so to people who want something for the 'cool' factor they'll just pay a bit too high of a price and not get their hands dirty.
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Even though I don't always agree with the high price of tractors such as this Gold Demonstrator but if there's someone willing to pay it, that's their better judgement. The other thing is the hobby is growing. Whether we like it or not there's always big money men in all hobbies. You say the lawn and garden tractor hobby was started by the man who could buy a tractor for a few couple hundred bucks and fix it up. I feel the hobby is still affordable for the common man if he wants to restore a common tractor. But in this situation this tractor appears to be a Gold Demonstrator if someone wants to pay $2500.00 that's their business. The odd tractors such as this are becoming less and less common and the prices will continue to go up. There are still tractors that the common guy can buy and have a good time with. I myself collect a little bit of all brands of tractors. I feel that the Case, Colt, and Ingersoll line has not seen a lot of exposure. As the hobby grows there are going to be more guys considering buying these three brands. This could be a good thing for the guys who have collections of these tractors.
Thanks,
Josh
Thanks,
Josh
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877 Posts
As Rockdog said, I've also dropped interest in stuff when they prices go "stoopid". I enjoy vintage stereo equipment, but when Pioneer receivers go for $3000+ enough is enough. I bought and sold a clone 68 Chevelle SS. I was told it was a clone from the beginning and told the guy that bought it from the same thing. Those are easy to spot by looking at the VIN # though. When I bought it and sold it the bill of sale also stated it was a clone. Stuff like that protects everybody. I don't know enough about Cases to tell if these special models are genuine or not. Someday I will learn.
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