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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello to all, you may recall that I picked up a very nice 1982 648 for short money a little while ago. :clap: Well, I got lucky and just picked up a repairable complete 1988 Perkins 103-09 3 cylinder diesel w/100 hours on it for $50.This motor makes around 18HP if throttled down to 2800 RPM.I think I need to change out the hydraulic pump for one that has more capacity so it can match the Case pump that runs at 3600RPM.I am wondering about a dual pump setup to separate the PTO circuit from the FEL/travel functions.Ultimately, I want to run a front mounted hydraulic post hole digger and modded snowcaster off of bobcat style quick attach plates in addition to the Case bucket.Any thoughts on this project would be greatly appreciated! Also.I am thinking of moving the fuel tank and putting dual batteries in the weight box position.I could weld up a 10 gallon tank with the right bungs very easily!With 2 heavy truck batteries and some thick steel plate you could approximate the overall weight for balance.It would make so much more room up front. Thoughts and comments please!
 

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Dual pumps are horrendously expensive and I don't see the need.

This pump

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?i ... B&catname=

will give you 10.18 GPM @ 2800 RPM.

That's enough to run your tractor's needs just as well as the old pump did.

As for the post hole auger, you need to do two things.

1. Install a rear PTO valve to power it

2. Select a hydraulic auger head that is happy with 10 GPM and 2400 PSI.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Tom....the tractor has the rear PTO setup on it.Would re-plumb it and move to front of the right side fender...I have no right leg so it wouldn't be in the way :mrgreen: I have a chance to buy a used Haldex 1821066 for $100.Here is the link to Graingers page http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/se ... sst=subset Is this pump too big? I am going to search for a used digger, that will be for a small business I want to start in the spring.....if anyone comes across one please let me know :thumbsup: Another question.....is there any difference in parts availability/rebuildability of the various makes of pumps and motors? Would make sense to spend a little more on a pump that could be redone in 10 years instead of a throw away.Thanks, Mark
 

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Bad choice, I'm afraid.

You would have 17 GPM at 2800 RPM with that pump and that's too much flow for the size of the plumbing in these tractors.

If you want to extend the life of your pump, then install an oil filter capable of flowing 15 GPM minimum while filtering out contaminants down to 10 microns. Change the hydraulic oil once each year and the filter cartridge every second year unless you are exceeding 500 hours per season on the hour meter.

Danuser is one maker of hydraulic augers but there are others.

If you want to go out and dig post holes for fences and decks in back yards, then choose your hydraulic digger wisely.

Do you have frost issues in your area? Where I live, we bore a full 4 feet deep to get below the depth of frost. If you don't get below the frost line, then the frost will push up on the posts every winter.

What size holes do you intend to bore? I used to use a 10" auger for 4 x 4's and a 16" auger for 6 x 6 posts.

I prefer double fluted auger bits with individual teeth on both flutes that can be easily replaced along with replaceable starter tips in the middle of the auger.

With a hydraulic auger, you can go with HEX drive instead of round drive with a shear pin.

Drilling holes is a job that is tough on equipment. Even in virgin ground, you can expect to find large rocks, tree roots and sometimes boulders so large that the hole cannot be drilled. In subdivisions, you will encounter clay soils that are packed like concrete as well as every imaginable piece of junk known to man buried below the surface.

If you choose some lightweight unit, you will regret it. You need to have a spare auger for back-up along with spare teeth and tips. Do your homework first. Talk to people who make augers. Talk to people who drill holes for a living such as fencing contractors. Learn which brands and models stand up to the test of time. Learn how much these units cost new. Then you will know what is a good deal and what isn't. Your market is probably the DIY guys who want to build the fence but don't want to hand dig the holes. Now, my hole sizes may seem too large in your eyes but it's tough to drill perfectly straight holes that are also in perfect alignment between the two corner posts.

http://www.equipmentland.com/products/b ... ndex.shtml

http://www.wikco.com/dhydaug.html

http://equipment.forconstructionpros.co ... ttachments
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you very much Tom, :goodpost: As usual you give great advise and info.I thought that pump was too big.I agree with everything you said about augers and your hole sizes are spot on.Maine is very rocky and frost level is 5ft by code.Drainage is very important...dry hole, no frost heave.One of our members here is the Landpride rep. and he is keeping his eye out for me.The purchase of the auger system is more important and more expensive than anything else toward my goal. What do you think of the Perkins and moving fuel/batteries out back? I will post pics and dimensions of the motor for everyones perusal tomorrow. :usa:
 

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You should really check to make sure what belongs in that tank under the hood.
If that's all your thinking you'll need for ballast you'll be surprised.
I've got eight 42# suitcase weights and sometimes wish for more.
 

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Mr onetwo said:
Thank you very much Tom, :goodpost: As usual you give great advise and info.I thought that pump was too big.I agree with everything you said about augers and your hole sizes are spot on.Maine is very rocky and frost level is 5ft by code.Drainage is very important...dry hole, no frost heave.One of our members here is the Landpride rep. and he is keeping his eye out for me.The purchase of the auger system is more important and more expensive than anything else toward my goal. What do you think of the Perkins and moving fuel/batteries out back? I will post pics and dimensions of the motor for everyones perusal tomorrow. :usa:
You could use a 4 ft double-flite auger with a 12'' or 18" extension to get the hole 5 feet deep but then you have to think about how high your loader will lift that auger package. You may have to make a custom mount on the loader frame and remove the bucket to attach it. You will also want a pair of 1/2" diameter steel lines to run along the outside of the loader arm on the right with quick couplers on the ends. Those will allow you to connect and disconnect the auger head easily. Those lines can then become hoses to complete their journey to the PTO valve.

If your Onan is getting tired, then the diesel is a good choice for repowering. In Europe, Case put Hatz air-cooled diesels in the 600's. I'm not sure why Craig is pushing for more ballast at the back but he can explain. After all, your auger unit doesn't weigh all that much and there isn't all that much dirt on the flutes if you are lifting the auger out of the hole while it is stopped.
 

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Mr onetwo said:
Well, I got lucky and just picked up a repairable complete 1988 Perkins 103-09 3 cylinder diesel w/100 hours on it for $50.This motor makes around 18HP if throttled down to 2800 RPM.I think I need to change out the hydraulic pump for one that has more capacity so it can match the Case pump that runs at 3600RPM.

If the diesel can run at 3600 rpm then I wouldn't bother changing the pump because you'll spend a lot more money on the pump and replumbing than you'll ever save in fuel by running at a lower speed.

I am wondering about a dual pump setup to separate the PTO circuit from the FEL/travel functions.Ultimately, I want to run a front mounted hydraulic post hole digger and modded snowcaster off of bobcat style quick attach plates in addition to the Case bucket.

I don't see any advantage in changing the plumbing circuit since the PTO and travel circuits don't generally compete with each other for power--you're not going to be driving and using the post hole digger simultaneously.

Any thoughts on this project would be greatly appreciated! Also.I am thinking of moving the fuel tank and putting dual batteries in the weight box position.I could weld up a 10 gallon tank with the right bungs very easily!With 2 heavy truck batteries and some thick steel plate you could approximate the overall weight for balance.It would make so much more room up front. Thoughts and comments please!
Concrete or scrap iron are a lot cheaper than batteries so why use batteries for ballast? You certainly don't need more battery power unless you're going to be adding a winch or other high demand electrical devices.

I do think that the Perkins would be a good choice if it fits.
 

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I got out of his post (and the one on MTF) that he wanted to move the tank and battery out from under the hood and use them as ballast while freeing up space under the hood. Since it's not running I wasn't sure he realized that the tank under the hood wasn't for fuel (at least mine isn't on the 646). He corrected me on MTF but I still don't understand what moving the fuel tank would accomplish. While batteries and liquid do weigh a bit they should take up allot more volume than iron would and I doubt an auger is going to be the only thing he lifts.
I must be missing something. :headscratcher:
 

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In the past year I built a post hole digger that mounts on the 3 point of my 444. I picked up the business end of a Little Beaver brand digger that had a blown engine. The specs on it matched up with the 444's PTO perfectly. Given you mounting to a tractor, I'd look for the bigger version that is made to be run by 2-4 people, and can handle a 16" auger. That's what I got (didn't know it at the time) and I'm extremely happy with the result.

I will say I can understand a desire for extra weight with a digger. I ended up with quite a pile of weight mounted out front. It isn't hard to get the auger tied in to a rock, or root, and want to pull out in order to rip whatever it is up. I know I started with 180#, and found I needed more as I could pull the front wheels up when ripping up rocks. I'm pretty sure I ended up north of 250# by the time I had strapped more hunks of iron up there.

Good luck with your build!

-Tim
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hey Guys, The main idea for moving the fuel tank to the weight box is to increase fuel capacity to 10 gallons or above, and to make re-fueling easier in "case" I make a canopy/cab...heh,heh :mrgreen: The battery idea is to isolate them from heat & vibration and to use a much larger battery to take advantage of the 70 amp alternator on the Perkins.An electric winch is a great idea...hydraulic ones are much too expensive. To get the right weight out back I plan on using the correct thickness of steel plate for the bottom and the back of the box....pcs of 1" plate can be had up in Bangor cheap....I have a good buddy who is a scrapper :mrgreen: The auger will not be mounted on the bucket...it will have it's own QA plate. Taking engine to machine shop Thursday...it is one stout puppy...I am very impressed with the Japanese workmanship of it. Pics soon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Other thoughts....have any of you guys checked out "dieselenginetrader.com"? Very cool to browse! Tom...here is a link to a place in Ohio that has a bunch of those Hatz diesels. http://www.adelmans.com/index.html ............. http://www.dieselenginetrader.com/index ... kfind_menu Just enter brand of engine you want...it's a cool site :thumbsup: I think the Perkins is going to fit like a glove in a 600 series, not so much in a 400 series.Does anyone know of a really good shop that can weld, regrind and straighten a crankshaft? I guess this is a lost art up here.Thanks to all! :usa:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
This project is gaining steam! :mrgreen: I found a guy who will sub-arc weld the crank journal,re-grind it to size and straighten/balance the crank for $180.He's in Augusta... only an hour from me.Also, dropping off block for repair today....s/b around $75 to repair
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hydriv said:
Is this a wet sleeve engine? What shape are the bores in? Why did the crank twist? Won't you have to have a machine shop check all the rods to make sure they are within spec?
The story I got was that a rod failed at 40 hrs and was replaced by Miller under warrantee.The guy is a retired machinist and got it from a rep before it went to the boneyard.Put a small window in block, messed up journal and crank will not turn in bearings.It is not a sleeve type engine...bores and 2 pistons are perfect.I think all I need is 1 rod and piston, maybe bearings.He thinks that the crank got tweeked a bit, not twisted...very confident the it can easily be fixed.He just has no time or use for it and is cleaning out his shop.I will put up pics and dimensions tonight.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I have posted 10 pictures of the motor teardown in my gallery if you want to go look. Here are some critical dimensions for anyone who is interested. Bare Block- 11 1/8" long x 10 15/16" high x 9 1/2" wide; face of cam cover to end of bellhousing- 17 9/16"; bellhousing mounting pad width- 13 13/16";crankshaft output flange- 2 5/8" 6 bolt metric; total width with all drives on- 11 1/16". Drive pulley on front- 4" A groove. I hope this helps anyone who might consider this swap...I am totally impressed by the quality of this motor....really rugged.Its even epoxied on the inside to prevent rust!!!! :trink: PS- good news....When I pulled the drive, I could then turn the crank....engine might be less boogered up than I thought.....Cheers :trink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
WOW...I am in shock :shock: A new crank for this engine costs $1385.94!!!!! Piston/rings/rod assembly is over $320 w/o bearings. This may be dead in the water before it starts....have emailed a dozen places in US and UK looking for used spares. :facepalm:
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hydriv said:
Welcome to the world of diesels.

Kinda makes those Kohler K's look pretty inviting, huh????
As usual ,you are correct Sir! :crazy: I have not given up, the Perkins will sit in the corner on the off chance that some used spares show up.I feel sorry for anyone who owns a diesel Ingersoll.They better pray nothing catastrophic happens!
 

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Mr onetwo said:
Hydriv said:
Welcome to the world of diesels.
Kinda makes those Kohler K's look pretty inviting, huh????
As usual ,you are correct Sir! :crazy: I have not given up, the Perkins will sit in the corner on the off chance that some used spares show up.I feel sorry for anyone who owns a diesel Ingersoll.They better pray nothing catastrophic happens!
Mr. One Two: I have seen Surplus Supply in the past advertise small complete NOS Perkins diesels for under $2000.
Realize it may be moot, at least, temporarily. Question in my mind. You didn't mention the radiator, did you determine that there was room for one under there? (Assuming this engine is water cooled.) Would oil cooler be in front of radiator? Could adequately cooling both diesel engine and hydraulic system be an issue?
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
 
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