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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Howdy all,

I had originally posted on another forum, but decided to go here since there generally seems to be more discussion.

Just staring out the thread for the 1980 444 that I picked up. I hope to update this with pictures as progress happens. I have been running an Ingy 3012 for a while and came across a blown engine 444 for sale. In some wheeling and dealing, I acquired an 18hp v-twin Honda that I am going to graft in. The tractor is far from pretty, what with its missing steering wheel, mismatched front tires, dented grille and rolled on backyard paint job. At any rate, I had fallen in love with these tractors a while ago, so the 200 clams it set me back seems worth it to me.

Plans for it include some paint and powder coating, a cab, a snowcaster, new tires and the engine transplant. I'm not particularly a purist, so the color scheme may change ( l like the black frames), as well as some other details, such as a possible vertical exhaust stack. Time and money shall dictate.
 

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That looks like it will be a nice project. Do you still have the original engine that came with it or is that long gone?

It might be easier to rebuild the old Kohler instead of getting the honda to work.


The steel looks very straight except for a little tweak in the front grill. :cool:
 

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Snotrocket said:
It might be easier to rebuild the old Kohler instead of getting the honda to work.
:+1:
You'll have to replace your PTO to run the snowcaster; fabricate a mounting bracket for the pump - and buy a lovejoy half for the Honda; hope the hood will still close - probably too narrow and possibly too low; replace 80% of your electrical system; try to build and squeeze in a custom exhaust, blah blah blah blah blah.
Even if the Honda engine was free, it might still be cheaper to rebuild the Kohler.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the welcome!

Length on the Honda is actually shorter than the OEM Kohler, so that shouldn't be a problem. I am hoping the Honda cylinders clear the hood. I should gain some clearance in eliminating the anti-vibe mount from the single piston and mounting directly to the frame. It is a fairly compact engine, so it just may be fine. The gentleman that I did the horse-trading with for the engine also sent a couple used electric clutches with me, so hopefully one of those is good. All I need to come up with is the stub shaft for the flywheel side so I can run the pump and the PTO. I am considering linking a switch to the original PTO lever to control the electric clutch.

The original Kohler is gone, the previous owner kept it for parts. That is a shame, as I have come to love the Kohler in my 3012. Case/Ingersoll parts are relatively rare in my area, so hopefully I won't need too much. The snowblower is going to take the most effort for me to find. I already found most of a cab, but the dealer wants a bit much for it I think.

I hope to fit everything and get it in running order first, then disassemble and do a partial restore.

I am thinking a modified black frame paint scheme with the frame, pedals, axles and foot surfaces in black, but power red/vermillion/orange (whatever you prefer) for everything else, including the dash tower. Probably stick with the original type decals.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Bill.H said:
You'll have to replace your PTO to run the snowcaster; fabricate a mounting bracket for the pump - and buy a lovejoy half for the Honda; hope the hood will still close - probably too narrow and possibly too low; replace 80% of your electrical system; try to build and squeeze in a custom exhaust, blah blah blah blah blah.
Even if the Honda engine was free, it might still be cheaper to rebuild the Kohler.
The pump bracket doesn't concern me much, as modding the one on there shouldn't take much effort. The pto clutches I have should fit right on and I will likely have the guys in the machine shop where I work turn down a piece for the flywheel shaft. I can have them match it to a lovejoy half I have sitting around. The exhaust will most likely be outside the hood, with a vertical stack configuration, though I may run it along the hood (still up in the air on that). The wiring will probably be more like 95% replacement, but that's part of the fun.

I probably sound overly optimistic, as few tear-down type projects actually are what they appear to be at face value. I will certainly keep you all informed.
 

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Just thought of something - if that machine has a PTO safety switch, you could use that microswitch to operate a relay to control the electric PTO. The stock switch has an unused terminal. Remove the existing clutch rod and you're in business.

BTW: In my album is the schematic for my Kawasaki powered 446, it's probably 95% usable for a Honda. The main difference would be the lights and clutch. My electrical system is all new except for headlights, battery, and safety switch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I see why you would think that.....I was not correct when I mentioned turning the stub shaft down to fit the lovejoy. The stub will be for the clutch. I will have to see if I have an inch shaft lovejoy around for the other side. Sorry.
 

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Mike caught something in your post that I missed the first time around.

If you mount the Honda with the flywheel facing the rear of the tractor, then you will have to buy a new hydraulic pump because the existing one has the wrong rotation. In addition, any deck or snowcaster you buy will have to be for a 4 digit Ingersoll, making those attachments more expensive to purchase and harder to locate. You might want to consider mounting the engine with the flywheel facing the front of the tractor to eliminate those problems.
 

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WVshooter

I agree with you...that other site is pretty inactive, just came from there.

Sounds like a real project, lots of fun! BTW, I'm an electrician, and I've done wierd wiring things with engines in pickups...charging systems, starters, glow plug operation, you name it...Right now I'm converting a truck with a carb to run the EFI wiring with a later motor, I know what you are going through. Anyway, I'll be on here often, good luck with the project!

Rob
 

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Engine rotating backwards...a though on that. Why not have a camshaft made for reverse rotation? Drag strip cars have that sort of thing done all the time so they can have their flywheels sync up. Just change cam, timing, and starter rotation and you are on your way. Might save you some trouble on mounting things on the wrong end of the engine.
 

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case680rob said:
Engine rotating backwards...a though on that. Why not have a camshaft made for reverse rotation? Drag strip cars have that sort of thing done all the time so they can have their flywheels sync up. Just change cam, timing, and starter rotation and you are on your way. Might save you some trouble on mounting things on the wrong end of the engine.
But if he just turns the engine around,he would save all that trouble and expense.

Maynard :canada:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
OK all,

Was working on this project some today FINALLY. General consensus around here is to stick with the Honda, which I have a hard time arguing with since it is already in my garage. However, I have ran into some issues. Firstly, the PTO side crankshaft is too long and will have to but cut down. No big deal. Secondly, the engine will not fit under the hood as-is. Will have to make a decision on that, be it modification or newer style hood. Next, the exhaust exits on the PTO side of the engine, which wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for needing to crowd the engine to the back of the engine compartment in order to allow for a PTO clutch on the front. With that said, the exhaust will have to be run back around both sides and meet in a muffler in the front or exit separately on either side. Either way, crowding the engine to the back puts the exhaust ports uncomfortably close to the oil reservoir.

At this juncture, I can turn the engine around like a 4000 series, replace the pump and still fit a PTO clutch. The alternative is to continue on with the engine sitting the "correct" way and not fit the clutch. This wouldn't be a total loss, as I mow with my 3012 and plan mostly to pull/push and plow with the 444. The only real reason I want the clutch is for a snowblower, which I will bring up in another thread.

Input/Ideas?
 

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Since you have already decided to go "all hydraulic", some of your problems have disappeared.


With no front PTO in your future, you will have to find an electric fan of a suitable size at the local wrecking yard for the oil cooler. Figure out where the engine has to sit and then cut the frame horizontally in that area just like Case did for the Onan engine. Weld in a reinforcement angle to restore the strength to the frame. You should be able to pick up an inch of vertical engine room with that move. If you still need a tad more, then consider modifying the front hood-hinge to all that to be raised an inch. Since the hood slants slightly downward from the dash, this might give you clearance right where you need it. The exhaust will now be easier to work out and not pose a problem for the hydraulic oil tank.
 
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