My Second 4016 Build Thread

3711 Views 61 Replies 10 Participants Last post by FastEddie, 25 d ago

FastEddie

Discussion Starter · 7 mo ago

3

Howdy friends! I haven't been too active on the forum since I repowered my 4016 with the 23hp Vanguard. That machine has been kicking butt and I will do a little follow-up post on that thread for everyone that helped me out with it.

A friend of my family's was downsizing and learned my brother and I both had Ingersoll tractors. My dad took my trailer to his house to buy some things from him and he sent my dad home with his beloved Onan powered 4016 with a HH34 3-point, an improvised backblade, a snow blade, and a ton of spare parts. I was considering buying a second tractor for snow removal and dirt work so I could leave the deck on my repowered 4016 year round but I couldn't justify spending a few grand on another tractor. This deal was timed incredibly well and I couldn't be more grateful with winter coming, my wife wanting to start a vegetable garden next year, and wanting a similar tractor for a backup that could share implements with my tractor.

Wheel Tire Vehicle Tractor Automotive tire

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The tractor and implements have had many improvised repairs throughout the years and he said at one point, the original frame broke in half and the dealer installed his engine and some of the mechanicals on another tractor. The hour meter reads 1200/hrs but that was from the replacement tractor and he thinks the Onan P216 has over 2000/hrs on it but you'd never know as it runs great and doesnt burn any oil. He told me this tractor didn't owe him a dime and figured I'd part it out but I'm going to do the work to make it great again and document it here.

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FastEddie

Discussion Starter · #2 · 7 mo ago

3

I was excited to have a 3-point at my disposal and needed to move some trailers and projects around my property so I picked up this Impact Implements Cat-0 receiver from Amazon with a Curt 2" ATV hitch. The ball is welded to the hitch and it has a rod welded in under it for hooking tow chain/strap and a blank hole for drop-pin implements. I picked up a small shank 1-7/8" ball for my small trailers and bolted it through upside down so I can either flip the hitch upside down to change ball size or remove the small ball to pull a yard cart or trail mower.

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Tire Wheel Plant Vehicle Automotive tire

This is the hitch I used:

MotoAlliance Impact CAT-0 3-Point Adapter to 2" Receiver Hitch https://a.co/d/1evIesD

The description says "not for trailer towing purposes" but I think we all know that's for liability reasons on their part. I'm going to add a gusset under the receiver tube just for some extra support but I would never move anything heavier than an empty or at least neutrally balanced trailer.

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FastEddie

Discussion Starter · #3 · 7 mo ago

2

The 3-point felt a little weird to me like the plate was flexing so I removed it from the tractor and discovered this.

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I was pretty bummed that it was this bad but my brother the expert fabricator is going to patch in a new piece of plate with gussets, cut off and transfer over the tow hitch and cylinder bracket, and I'm going to replace the top angle bracket with a new one.

This repair is going to be a feat but I'm hopeful!

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FastEddie

Discussion Starter · #4 · 7 mo ago

2

The PO put a one-way brass ball valve in the PTO cutout below the seat to isolate the midlift from the 3-point and it somewhat worked but both cylinders would drift depending on which one was selected and where the weight was. With the back blade raised, the 3-point cylinder would retract while extending the midlift cylinder until it stroked out.

I did some research on selector valves here and found the two-position Prince valve you guys use from Surplus Center. I liked the R.H. tower mount but wanted the ability to isolate the two cylinders with the option to run both at the same time to get all implements off the ground in one shot. I went with this valve by Chief, also found on Amazon, and it's a few bucks cheaper than the Prince Valve. I like the handle also, as opposed to the the push/pull spool.

Chief Rotary Diverter Flow Valves 357-31-SAE 8: 16 Max GPM, 4350 Max PSI, Open Center, SAE #8 Ports, 2.87 A DIM, 1.65 B DIM, 6.1 C DIM, 450215 https://a.co/d/14LcYe5

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I bought the fittings from Motion Industries and will get the hoses made at work. Fittings are made by Brennan and all are -8 STOR boss (valve side) and -4 JIC (hose side). The single straight adapter is P/N 6400-04-08-O and the two 90-deg adapters are P/N 6801-04-08-NWO-FG.

The pic below shows the fittings and how big the valve and handle is in relation to my hand. I think this will be cool on the tower.

Hand Gesture Finger Art Thumb

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dundee222

· #5 · 7 mo ago

If you really want "clean", put it IN the tower, with only the handle protruding.

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FastEddie

Discussion Starter · #6 · 7 mo ago

dundee222 said:
If you really want "clean", put it IN the tower, with only the handle protruding.

That's a novel idea. The stops for the lever are on the knobby side of the valve but if the spool is reversible, I may be able to devise my own stops protruding from the tower. I don't think there's enough real estate inside the tower for the valve but I will investigate that to be sure.

bigman

· #7 · 7 mo ago

Great thread
Some good info and sure sorry about your rear plate
It would be nice to get the value in the tower but there not much room

Automotive tire Wood Motor vehicle Bumper Asphalt

MotoAlliance Impact CAT-0 3-Point Adapter to 2" Receiver Hitch
Visit the MotoAlliance Store
5.0 out of 5 stars 4 ratings
$89.99

bigman

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FastEddie

Discussion Starter · #8 · 7 mo ago

bigman said:
Great thread
Some good info and sure sorry about your rear plate
It would be nice to get the value in the tower but there not much room

bigman

Thanks Biggie!

The PO said he worked this thing hard like a bulldozer and now I believe him! I'm going to buy a new piece of plate this week and hopefully by the weekend we'll have the broken center section cut out with the plasma cutter and a new piece burned in. I only need the top set of holes to mount it to the axle housing so we'll leave the bottom of the plate blank without other two sets of holes and it should eliminate a weak point (notice the crack running through the center of the lower holes on the right).

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FastEddie

Discussion Starter · #9 · 7 mo ago

The next piece of the puzzle is the rockshaft. The brake pedal was pulled back with mechanic's wire which gave me thrill when I unloaded the tractor from the trailer and backed down the ramp. As I investigated this situation I found the midlift cylinder was being suspended with duct tape because the cylinder arms were broken off, the brake rod lever was broken off, the rockshaft sleeve was bent, and the lift plate was twisted.

Asphalt Road surface Font Tints and shades Art

I bought a good used assembly from an eBay seller for $45 and should see it this weekend.

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FastEddie

Discussion Starter · #10 · 7 mo ago

2

I had a chance to powerwash the tractor and mess with diverter valve placement for a while. It's definitely not fitting inside the tower anywhere. It would be ideal to mount it on the RH side of the tower just under the hood and within reach of the raise/lower lever but the hydraulic tank is right up against the tower with no room for bolt heads for valve mounting.

Wheel Motor vehicle Vehicle Hood Automotive tire

Wheel Tire Vehicle Motor vehicle Hood

The LH side of the tower has an open cavity next to the battery that would accommodate bolt heads but putting the valve inline with the travel lever seems counterintuitive. More time at the drawing board!

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Gordy

· #11 · 7 mo ago

Ed,

I think you could put the valve on the tank side. It would require removing the tank to drill the holes then chamfer the holes to accept flat head machine screws.

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The tower metal may not be thick enough to get a deep enough chamfer to get the head flush with the tower side. So it may be necessary to dimple the the hole. I have done this by putting a screw in the hole, then a 1/2" or 3/4" nut centered over the threads, then a heavy washer and the nut for the screw. Torque the nut down as tight as you dare, place a BFH against a socket on the small nut and another BFH to whack the head of the bolt a couple times then re torque the nut and repeat till the head is flush. If this is needed you will need to chamfer the holes on the back side of the valve to get it to sit flat.

Cheers,
Gordy

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nickv99

· #12 · 7 mo ago

Gordy said:
Ed,

I think you could put the valve on the tank side. It would require removing the tank to drill the holes then chamfer the holes to accept flat head machine screws.

View attachment 127834

The tower metal may not be thick enough to get a deep enough chamfer to get the head flush with the tower side. So it may be necessary to dimple the the hole. I have done this by putting a screw in the hole, then a 1/2" or 3/4" nut centered over the threads, then a heavy washer and the nut for the screw. Torque the nut down as tight as you dare, place a BFH against a socket on the small nut and another BFH to whack the head of the bolt a couple times then re torque the nut and repeat till the head is flush. If this is needed you will need to chamfer the holes on the back side of the valve to get it to sit flat.

Cheers,
Gordy

I like this idea! I would have used this method on several occasions but my mind never thought of it this way.

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FastEddie

Discussion Starter · #13 · 6 mo ago

Gordy said:
Ed,

I think you could put the valve on the tank side. It would require removing the tank to drill the holes then chamfer the holes to accept flat head machine screws.

View attachment 127834

The tower metal may not be thick enough to get a deep enough chamfer to get the head flush with the tower side. So it may be necessary to dimple the the hole. I have done this by putting a screw in the hole, then a 1/2" or 3/4" nut centered over the threads, then a heavy washer and the nut for the screw. Torque the nut down as tight as you dare, place a BFH against a socket on the small nut and another BFH to whack the head of the bolt a couple times then re torque the nut and repeat till the head is flush. If this is needed you will need to chamfer the holes on the back side of the valve to get it to sit flat.

Cheers,
Gordy

Thanks for this suggestion Gordy, I hadn't considered using flathead screws. If I dimple the holes I don't know if the valve will sit flat against the tower but I will investigate this.

bobneumann

· #14 · 6 mo ago

Why not make or buy a replacement panel that you're missing for the front face of the seat base (between the operator's legs) and mount it there? I think that would have been the factory location.

Bob

FastEddie

Discussion Starter · #15 · 6 mo ago

bobneumann said:
Why not make or buy a replacement panel that you're missing for the front face of the seat base (between the operator's legs) and mount it there? I think that would have been the factory location.

Bob

I do have that panel, just removed it to assess what the PO did with the ball valve he installed there. I'm hesitant to put the diverter valve there because I might install hydraulic PTO on this machine in the future and from my understanding that's the PTO valve's factory location.

bobneumann

· #16 · 6 mo ago

FastEddie said:
I do have that panel, just removed it to assess what the PO did with the ball valve he installed there. I'm hesitant to put the diverter valve there because I might install hydraulic PTO on this machine in the future and from my understanding that's the PTO valve's factory location.

Well, I don't have a PTO valve, so I could be wrong. But I'm pretty sure that the PTO valve goes right behind the seat and the factor diverter valve goes in the panel in front of the seat.

Bob

FastEddie

Discussion Starter · #17 · 6 mo ago

bobneumann said:
Well, I don't have a PTO valve, so I could be wrong. But I'm pretty sure that the PTO valve goes right behind the seat and the factor diverter valve goes in the panel in front of the seat.

Bob

I didn't know the 3-point tractors came with a factory diverter valve. Guess I should figure out the PTO thing.

Gordy

· #18 · 6 mo ago (Edited)

FastEddie said:
Thanks for this suggestion Gordy, I hadn't considered using flathead screws. If I dimple the holes I don't know if the valve will sit flat against the tower but I will investigate this.

From your pictures it looks like the valve has plenty of material to chamfer the back of the mounting holes to get it to mount flat. Otherwise a chunk of 1/4" material could be cut and drilled to match the valve body and chamfer it's holes.

To the best of my knowledge you are correct CCI did NOT have a selector valve option and the OEM PTO valve was mounted in front of the seat.

Cheers,
Gordy

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Gordy

· #19 · 6 mo ago

bobneumann said:
Well, I don't have a PTO valve, so I could be wrong. But I'm pretty sure that the PTO valve goes right behind the seat and the factor diverter valve goes in the panel in front of the seat.

Bob

Bob,
People who don't want to spend the big bucks for the OEM PTO valve for this tractor, have boughten used old style PTO valves (rear mount) and installed them on these tractors. They can get by with it if they use the older (lighter duty) 3pt's, But the old PTO valves will interfere with the newest 3pt's HH34 I believe they are called.

And as far as I know a diverter valve never was a OEM option for CCI.

Cheers,
Gordy

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bobneumann

· #20 · 6 mo ago

Gordy said:
Bob,
People who don't want to spend the big bucks for the OEM PTO valve for this tractor, have boughten used old style PTO valves (rear mount) and installed them on these tractors. They can get by with it if they use the older (lighter duty) 3pt's, But the old PTO valves will interfere with the newest 3pt's HH34 I believe they are called.

And as far as I know a diverter valve never was a OEM option for CCI.

Cheers,
Gordy

Thanks for weighing in. I stand corrected.

Bob

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