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1993 Ingersoll 4118, 1984 Case 448
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Yes Bill we are all talking about the same valve.
I just took my hoses off my power steering a week ago on my 4118. I did make a drawing of how they go.

This keeps getting more interesting. 3000psi at the TCV. I'll have to look at the internals. @bobneumann will have it in his head. What is stopping the flow in the main circuit to get the pressure that high?
 

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Okay, now I'm confused. If I understand correctly, the pump is deadheaded. But you have 3,000 PSI measured at the TCV at a point after the fluid has flowed through/past the PTO valve. With the TCV disengaged. (Not attempting to operate the lift, not attempting to drive the travel motor.)

When I step through it in my mind, that seems "impossible". Because at that point, if the TCV is not engaged, then that cavity of the TCV is open to the return-to-tank pipe. So the only back pressure that ought to be present at that port is less than 10 PSI, due merely to flow restriction as the fluid makes its way through the hydraulic filter, through the oil cooler, and into the tank. So I can't imagine a scenario where you see 3,000 PSI at that point while having a wide open TCV.

Is it possible that you are somehow measuring pressure somewhere upstream of the PTO valve, and the PTO valve is closed? I've never worked on a machine that has a PTO installed so I'm a little out of my depth on that particular subject...

For what it's worth...

Bob
 

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As I run this through my head I come to the same thought.

We need to pick through this making sure we are all talking about the same parts of the system and are clear as to what has all been done previously.

Bill, take care of your wife, the tractor will wait. We'll figure it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
I'm sorry, I did not explain it right. The 3000 lb measurement was taken prior to me taking the tractor apart. Since I was going to take the whole thing apart, I was trying test the condition of the pump and engine and replace whatever when apart. I connected the gauge to the plug on the bottom by the TCV in port and then reved the engine and momentarily used the pto to deadhead a cylinder. I only included that information to show that the pump and engine were good condition.
To repeat ,after replacing all the bad hoses and reassembling the tractor the first time, the engine started as normal and all hydraulics worked,frd/rev, lift circuit, and pto. The tractor would steer lft/rht but without any power assist. As the tractor sat there at idle speed I saw two drips, it turned out to be two hoses that were seeping enough to drip. I wanted to see if they would drip faster so I reved the engine to watch them and that is when the return hose going to the radiator blew. I would replace three hoses instead of two that were dripping.
The PS out hose connects to the return side of the TCV, I believed at the time that I had the in/out hoses to the PS switched and I applied full pressure to the tractor return circuit. That;s why the hose blew.
I reassembled it the second time with three new hoses switching the in/out at the PS valve, same problem, everything worked but the PS.
The third time I connected the hoses according to the the manual and now it won't start and nothing works.
So either I blew a valve or the picture in the manual is different than my valve.
What a pita
Bill
 

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Some of the manuals are confusing and I have noticed don't agree with each other. I think someone had an issue with this too, I didn't find the post. Also when looking at the pictures the steering box is upside down from how it is on the tractor. The parts manual shows the hoses from the PS to the cylinder as left and right port, but on my 4118 they are both on the right side of the PS box. If the PS was clocked/rotated this would change.

This is how mine is set, perspective like you are in the seat. The relief port faces the seat. The line from the pump connects to the fitting in line with the relief, the line to the TCV is connected to the offset fitting to the left side. The right sides match the cylinder.
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See if this helps check where you have your hoses. Then I think what Bob had said about the PS damage, stuck relief, and how the diverter valve works makes sense.

Blowing the low pressure hose seems to be another issue. Did you replace the hydraulic filter while you were working on it? And if so was it an Ingersoll one? The high pressure in that part of the system you have to look at something being restricted.
 

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Some of the manuals are confusing and I have noticed don't agree with each other. I think someone had an issue with this too, I didn't find the post. Also when looking at the pictures the steering box is upside down from how it is on the tractor. The parts manual shows the hoses from the PS to the cylinder as left and right port, but on my 4118 they are both on the right side of the PS box. If the PS was clocked/rotated this would change.

This is how mine is set, perspective like you are in the seat. The relief port faces the seat. The line from the pump connects to the fitting in line with the relief, the line to the TCV is connected to the offset fitting to the left side. The right sides match the cylinder. View attachment 126878
See if this helps check where you have your hoses. Then I think what Bob had said about the PS damage, stuck relief, and how the diverter valve works makes sense.

Blowing the low pressure hose seems to be another issue. Did you replace the hydraulic filter while you were working on it? And if so was it an Ingersoll one? The high pressure in that part of the system you have to look at something being restricted.
I agree with this in particular about the blowing the low pressure line. No matter what you hook up or how, to blow that low pressure line seems like either the line was just in awful shape, or there's some kind of a restriction in the cooler or the filter.

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Thanks Timj;
I assume that this drawing is from your working tractor. Compare the diagram with the manual in the link
https://www.casecoltingersoll.com/d...arker 2753 HGF Power Steering service.pdf,the left/right face front out faces seat. And on my tractor, my valve is 180 from yours.
Even with a mirror and flash light, you can,t see up in there to read markings.
Do I have to pull the valve just to read the marking?
Bill
 

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Yes, been like this for almost 1400 hours, I did the drawing two weeks ago when I pulled my tractor apart so I would not forget how to put it back together when the hoses came. I could see it being rotated on other models for hose hook up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Timj;
Did you pull your steering valve or just hoses? Do you have to pull the tank to get the valve out? Tire Wheel Vehicle Automotive tire Motor vehicle
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I was able to get the hoses off through the access panels with out removing the valve or anything from above. I think there may be a little more room in the tower on a 4100 series because the filter and cooler are not in there.
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Looking at the manuals and mine, the "in"port on the PS is nearest the relief valve (makes sense), the out is the "odd/offset" port and goes to the TCV. The parallel ports are the steering. Does this seem right with yours?
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Finally got back to the tractor. Before I took it apart again I pulled the hose of the regulator and put another hose on and ran it to a bucket. The tractor started and ran fine, that hose was causing the deadhead.
The bottom of the valve was clean but had so much black paint on it that I could not read the marking for each port.
I used brake cleaner and a wire brush and with a small mirror, I was able to find the right port and the out port marking and I think I saw one that said in. They line up with the drawing that Timj made . Thanks Timj. The picture of the ports in the manual are definitely wrong.
I also checked the relief valve. it appeared ok. both springs in place and moved freely.
Tomorrow I'm going to put it together again using correct drawing, the only problem is I thought that's the way I had it the first time when everything but the PS worked. I done it so many times, I just don;t remember.
If after I get it back together, everything works but the PS, then I know the regulator and cylinder are good and four new hoses, then it has to be the steering valve. It appears the easiest to pull that valve is to remove engine and pump.
Thank everybody for your help and I let you know what happens,
Bill
 

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Finally got back to the tractor. Before I took it apart again I pulled the hose of the regulator and put another hose on and ran it to a bucket. The tractor started and ran fine, that hose was causing the deadhead.
The bottom of the valve was clean but had so much black paint on it that I could not read the marking for each port.
I used brake cleaner and a wire brush and with a small mirror, I was able to find the right port and the out port marking and I think I saw one that said in. They line up with the drawing that Timj made . Thanks Timj. The picture of the ports in the manual are definitely wrong.
I also checked the relief valve. it appeared ok. both springs in place and moved freely.
Tomorrow I'm going to put it together again using correct drawing, the only problem is I thought that's the way I had it the first time when everything but the PS worked. I done it so many times, I just don;t remember.
If after I get it back together, everything works but the PS, then I know the regulator and cylinder are good and four new hoses, then it has to be the steering valve. It appears the easiest to pull that valve is to remove engine and pump.
Thank everybody for your help and I let you know what happens,
Bill
Nicely done, and that's the way to approach it. Level headed and systematic.

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
The tractor is back together and it appears everything works. It sat over night with out a leak, I will finish putting all the pieces back and test it Wed.
I want to thank everyone again for their help!! Thank Timj for the drawing. The manual picture is definitly wrong.
I still have a 444 thats not running right, thats next after I fix a rust hole in my truck.
Bill
 

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The tractor is back together and it appears everything works. It sat over night with out a leak, I will finish putting all the pieces back and test it Wed.
I want to thank everyone again for their help!! Thank Timj for the drawing. The manual picture is definitly wrong.
I still have a 444 thats not running right, thats next after I fix a rust hole in my truck.
Bill
I'm relieved to hear it!

Congratulations!

Bob
 
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