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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey everyone, I have stumbled onto what I think will be my 2nd tractor and I have a question.The serial# is 9636019 and predates what is in the serial# production sheets.Is there any way to tell when this tractor was made? Do we know the oldest serial# for a 444?Are there any pros or cons to a very early (pre 1972) 444.It has a rear pto,3 point hitch,tiller,mower and 48" snowcaster and all for $650.A super deal I think! :mrgreen: What do you all think....thanks for your help! :446:
 

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Mr onetwo said:
Hey everyone, I have stumbled onto what I think will be my 2nd tractor and I have a question.The serial# is 9636019 and predates what is in the serial# production sheets.Is there any way to tell when this tractor was made? Do we know the oldest serial# for a 444?Are there any pros or cons to a very early (pre 1972) 444.It has a rear pto,3 point hitch,tiller,mower and 48" snowcaster and all for $650.A super deal I think! :mrgreen: What do you all think....thanks for your help! :446:
That one is a 1969 444PK model.

The problem with the 1969 and 1970 tractors is that they do NOT have the Snap Fast system. That means, the later model decks, plow blades and snow casters do not fit onto that tractor.

It also may have the F-26 3 point hitch that does not have down-pressure like the later H and J model hitches do.

Lastly, the snow caster used for those models had a gearbox and drive shaft arrangement. It takes more effort to connect it up than the later H, J, K, L, M series snow casters.

If you can live with all of that, then it is a good purchase. However, nothing you have now in the way of attachments will work on the middle or front of this 444.

So... what are you going to do?

Edited, as per Stewart's discovery of my typo. :sidelaugh:
 

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Hydriv said:
Mr onetwo said:
Hey everyone, I have stumbled onto what I think will be my 2nd tractor and I have a question.The serial# is 9636019 and predates what is in the serial# production sheets.Is there any way to tell when this tractor was made? Do we know the oldest serial# for a 444?Are there any pros or cons to a very early (pre 1972) 444.It has a rear pto,3 point hitch,tiller,mower and 48" snowcaster and all for $650.A super deal I think! :mrgreen: What do you all think....thanks for your help! :446:
That one is a 1969 444PK model.

The problem with the 1969 and 1979 tractors is that they do NOT have the Snap Fast system. That means, the later model decks, plow blades and snow casters do not fit onto that tractor.

It also may have the F-26 3 point hitch that does not have down-pressure like the later H and J model hitches do.

Lastly, the snow caster used for those models had a gearbox and drive shaft arrangement. It takes more effort to connect it up than the later H, J, K, L, M series snow casters.

If you can live with all of that, then it is a good purchase. However, nothing you have now in the way of attachments will work on the middle or front of this 444.

So... what are you going to do?
Hey Hydriv

ya wanna change your mind on the 1979 ? :headscratcher:

Likely a typo,without a Preview. :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh:

I'd guess a zero would be more correct.

Just correcting typo's for future readers. :thumbsup:

Stewart
 

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Mr onetwo said:
Hey everyone, I have stumbled onto what I think will be my 2nd tractor and I have a question.The serial# is 9636019 and predates what is in the serial# production sheets.Is there any way to tell when this tractor was made? Do we know the oldest serial# for a 444?Are there any pros or cons to a very early (pre 1972) 444.It has a rear pto,3 point hitch,tiller,mower and 48" snowcaster and all for $650.A super deal I think! :mrgreen: What do you all think....thanks for your help! :446:
If the engine checks out it sounds like a real good deal. You will have virtually every attachment one may need. They are unique and IMO collectable GTs. Good luck!
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
PS A question for the group. Understanding the snowblower shaft drive is harder to put on. Seems sort of an advantage in a way with no belts to buy and is the power transfer better? Just wondering.......
 

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Rich, I don't have any evidence to support it but I believe that you will find that belts are hard to beat for power transfer. Case and New Holland are now using CVT (snowmobile clutch on steroids) in some of their farm tractors. Gregg
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for all the comments...but no one answered my real question.Is there anything mechanically wrong with the very early tractors that was changed later?What about parts availability,especially for the early mower and shaft drive snowcaster.I have never even seen that version mentioned anywhere!This is to be a working machine and if I can't keep it alive, then it is of no use to me.I am not a collector...though I wish I had the money/space to be one!Thanks
 

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Some people say the frames on the early ones are prone to breaking.


If it were me personally and I was looking for a working tractor I would want one that would accept snap fast attachments. They're a lot easier to find and parts especially used ones are easier to find.
 

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Hang in there Mr. One two...Tom A. is having cable difficulties that should be remedied today. He will provide you with all the answers you are looking for.

The short answer to your question is that the tractors you are looking at would be a welcome addition to anyone's collection. If I were looking for strictly a work tractor they would not be my first choice. That doesn't have anything to do with the Tractor or the implements capabilities.

I am anxious to hear what Tom says about the frames on these models. Most of the weak frame stuff I am familiar with affected the '65 and before models.
 

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Mechanically the tractor in question is the same as all the later ones so that shouldn't worry you. As others have said, the main difference is the attachment mounting system which is much less convenient than the snap fast system. That said, if you are going to have several tractors set up for different tasks then you won't have to worry about swapping attachments around very much. I don't know anything about the frame issue but I would be happy to own what you've described for $650.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Snotrocket said:
I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as most of these guys but I could have sworn I read something about frame issues with the 69-70 442's.

$650 is a steal though, especially with the 3 point.
I just went through parts book# D1181 and it appears that 442's and 444's have the same exact frame and that there was a frame change in late '71 prior to 1972 serial numbers starting....I am starting to be a bit leery of this tractor.....are the implements worth anything if they are not "snap fast"?
 

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InTroubleAlltheTime said:
Mr onetwo said:
Hey everyone, I have stumbled onto what I think will be my 2nd tractor and I have a question.The serial# is 9636019 and predates what is in the serial# production sheets.Is there any way to tell when this tractor was made? Do we know the oldest serial# for a 444?Are there any pros or cons to a very early (pre 1972) 444.It has a rear pto,3 point hitch,tiller,mower and 48" snowcaster and all for $650.A super deal I think! :mrgreen: What do you all think....thanks for your help! :446:
If the engine checks out it sounds like a real good deal. You will have virtually every attachment one may need. They are unique and IMO collectable GTs. Good luck!
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
PS A question for the group. Understanding the snowblower shaft drive is harder to put on. Seems sort of an advantage in a way with no belts to buy and is the power transfer better? Just wondering.......
I put the same type of blower on my 155 and have no issues.... I think it is just a matter of preference..
 

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The three major changes in frames on 400 series Kohlers were the change to snap fast (probably what you are seeig in late 71), the switch to rubber mount engine and the adding of 2" length. Gregg
 

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Mr onetwo said:
I just went through parts book# D1181 and it appears that 442's and 444's have the same exact frame and that there was a frame change in late '71 prior to 1972 serial numbers starting....I am starting to be a bit leery of this tractor.....are the implements worth anything if they are not "snap fast"?
I wouldn't worry about the frame, there are still quite a few early 400 series running around without any frame issues. That frame is still much stronger than the 100 series, and even my 1974 446 has had its frame repaired in the weak spot above the rear axle where it tapers down. For the price I would say you can't go wrong considering what you're getting. As for the value of the pre-snap fast implements, it all comes down to what the buyer is looking for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thank you one and all! :thumbsup: I decided to jump in and buy that tractor.I will try to have photos tomorrow if I can figure that procedure out.I figure for $650 I can't go wrong, can I? :wtf: And just to make you all very envious...it even has glass eyes! :sidelaugh: Good day to all! :446:
 

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Yes, there apparently were frame issues with the early 400's. I have a 1971 442 (last year of manufacture) that has angle iron welded to the top of the frame due to frame cracking. When I was on the Yahoo forum, I can recall other reports of frame cracking. And did we not just discuss a listing for a tractor that had a loader on it at one point and there were angle iron reinforcements right where the frames are known to crack?


Perhaps the subject tractor is crack-free but if Mr. onetwo buys it, then he should do a thorough examination of the rear section of the frame. The problem with tractors that have cracked frames is that no one will admit what they did with the tractor that may have caused the breakage. Some people shouldn't be allowed to enter an outhouse because they're just animals with everything they come in contact with.

All in all, it comes down to what you want to use the tractor for. Parts for the tractor should not be a problem. I would think that most of the parts for the attachments should also be available. I look forward to seeing the photos.
 
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