Case Colt Ingersoll Tractors banner
21 - 37 of 37 Posts

Administrator
Joined
6,526 Posts
That's one of my concerns RF. On my Kohler it was easy to just make a plate to cover the old pump mount.
I'm sorta leaning towards just getting a pump rebuild kit for the MS carb. To be sure I would like to replace the reed valve plate too.
Still kind of torn on which way to move forward.
Guys, just because others will follow along and read this thread at some point in time, I feel I should clear something up.
So, firstly, I'm not making money by speaking up about adding an electric pump, (needs to be the correct one!) I just like the benefits of the pump.

Now, to the purpose of this post, and this isn't really directed towards gmunro or to influence him in any way shape or form, it is for others that will come around and read in months to come,,,

I've added electric fuel pumps, to all of my tractors. All either BF's of B43M's. On most of them, I did source out a "blanking plate for them" or whatever it's called. In essence, you remove the guts out of the pump, add a new plate on the front, stick you're incoming fuel line into it, and off you go. Now, having done this a few times, my inquisitive mind asks myself, so what did you just do, and what does it accomplish? The OEM, has the incoming fuel on the side of the pump, "behind all the little baffles that create the suction", as compared to the new blanking plate. Once you've remove the innards of the OEM pump, the fuel feed works in, in the same manner. Now, if you don't disconnect the suction line, one could argue that a correct electric pump, plus the vacuum created, could in affect, provide more fuel then the carb shut off can handle. So, blanking off the vacuum line, gets us, to the same spot as the addition of the "blanking plate". The OEM pump, by itself does not shut off fuel to the carb (unless you've got contamination in the pump), Fuel shut off is controlled by the float, in the carb.
On my last addition, a B43M, I did not remove the innards of the pump, fuel still comes in behind the workings of the pump, on the side of the pump, but I don't recollect if I disconnected the vacuum line to the pump. So, the purpose of this post is to correct and let others know, you can do this mod, without unduly stressing yourself wondering if it works or not. Think you need the rare blanking plate, (you don't), If you are so inclined to do the mod, do it, and forget about it, just get the correct pump though!

I'm currently about 500 miles from my little pride and joy, but if required, I could get my better half to a take a couple of pictures for me. (That taking picture for me, comes with a lot of stress and sighs though, from my better half, because it seems to be a difficult process like pulling a hens tooth)

Now back to the thread,
The posters problem, could be several things and not necessarily be the the "fuel pump" being the issue. It could be many things, like the float being incorrectly set, or binding or the pump could require a rebuild. Proper trouble shooting, reduces costs on parts that aren't required.

A very simple check, when tractor shuts down, remove 4 screws off top of carb, look in bowl, it either has fuel in there, or it doesn't,,, No fuel, = supply problem, full bowl = next likely problem,,
 

Registered
Joined
150 Posts
Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Thanks for all of the replies guys.
Now that you mention it Harry I did pull the top of the carb off on my first go around. It was dry so that pretty much confirms the issue is fuel delivery.
On my current Kohler I used a low pressure Facet pump from NAPA. It works fine.
Thanks for the input on not having to take the guts out of the current fuel pump.
Hens teeth are pretty hard to come by around here too ! 馃槅
 

Administrator
Joined
6,526 Posts
The below, would be the correct pump # if going electric.
But, before doing that, why not tap into one you already have on the 444? Just use a piece of clear tubing, over to your B43M,, if it works, you have to do one of 2 things,
Rebuild your current one,
Stick an electric one in,

But, for my peace of mind, I'd test it out first though,, Plus, if you have a clear fuel filter, watch the fuel in the fliter as it's running, does it progressively indicate more and more bubbles, till the fuel seems to just disappear?

 

Registered
Joined
150 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
I will test it off of the 444 Lionel, just for piece of mind if nothing else.
I've been looking at Facet pumps today ( including the link you posted ) and what's throwing me off is they are listed as 1/8-27 thread size. Am I missing something here ? My Facet has 1/4" fittings.
 

Administrator
1973 Case 444, 1974 Case 644, 1976 Case 446, 1977 Case 646
Joined
2,649 Posts
I believe the facet electric pumps come with different fitting depending on your particular application. I highly recommend electric pumps for the quick start purpose. I've had one on my 446 with an Onan for years. My 646 had one on it when I purchased it and I replaced it with a new one recently. My 644 with a Kohler has an electric on the shelf waiting to go on. Can't beat them for reliability.

Keep the Peace
Harry
 

Administrator
Joined
6,526 Posts
I will test it off of the 444 Lionel, just for piece of mind if nothing else.
I've been looking at Facet pumps today ( including the link you posted ) and what's throwing me off is they are listed as 1/8-27 thread size. Am I missing something here ? My Facet has 1/4" fittings.
In the thread for the pump, I listed this part,
You'll need 2, 1/4" nipple fittings.
Most places, like fitting shops will have these,, That's to convert to the correct hose size, that we should all have on our tractors I believe,
 

Registered
Joined
150 Posts
Discussion Starter · #28 ·
I finally got a chance to install the electric pump today. Had a "Covid delay". My wife got a positive test result this week on her 69th birthday ! She's fine, only cold symptom's. Very fortunate !!

Anyway the tractor started right up, plenty of fuel. The problem now is that it's running really poorly. I left the pulse line on the fuel pump and left all of the guts in it. I pinched the pulse line off while it was running and had no change. I guess that maybe I was confused about gutting the pump. I will do that next time that I wrench on it. I'll also block off the pulse line.
I really love these tractors but there are times ! UGH !!! :ROFLMAO:
 

Administrator
Joined
6,526 Posts
Can you post some pics of your carb and linkages?
I don't see how the pump would cause you a problem, even though you have 2 connected up. What pump did you use by chance? Pressure rating?
I hope your wife is fine and it's no more then just a cold type of symptom,
 

Registered
Joined
97 Posts
Does it act like it is running too rich? Maybe the float valve in the carb isn't shutting the fuel off like it should? Facet makes those pumps in several different pressure ratings. As I recall the one you want is rated at 1.5 psi. It could also be a problem with the float valve that was not noticed because there wasn't enough fuel pressure to cause a problem.
 

Registered
Joined
150 Posts
Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Thanks for the kind words about my wife Lionel, fortunately she is still doing just fine.
I'm "really" hoping that I didn't buy the wrong pump. It's the same one that I've been running on my 444. Rated at 1.5 to 4 psi.
As far as running rich it's not smoking or smelling like it is but... as I was looking down the throat while running the fuel seemed to atomize well for the most part, then when it sputters you can actually see a burst of gas that isn't atomizing.
I'm heading out to play with it soon and I'll pull the top off of the carb ( again! ) to check the float. Other than that I'm kind of at a loss.
Again, hopefully it isn't too much pressure from the pump.
 

Registered
Joined
60 Posts
Did not see it mentioned, but if you're having intermittent fuel delivery issues I would be having a close look at the hose connecting the fuel pump to the block, and also pulling the breather to check/clean it.

Al
 

Registered
Joined
1 Posts
Well, chasing a fuel problem can be a lot of fun. Now, since your fuel filter doesn't fill, I'd check the fuel strainer that on the outlet of the tank,, it can be viewed in the tank, at the bottom of the tank. This strainer, must be clean. Whiles at the tank, how's the tank vent? It's in the cap itself,, easy test it, when the thing isn't working, with a clean strainer, take cap off and see if filter fills up.
These 2 checks just rule out the tank portion, and I do have a other suggestions, but lets start with those 2 steps first,
I'm in same situation with not getting furlel just getting it started after 10 years sitting so new fuel pump new fuel filter new coil condenser tank was emptied and cleaned so say vacum line maybe plugged
 
21 - 37 of 37 Posts
Top