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Operators Manual after 9-9930 (for PN > 1409620)

4567 Views 12 Replies 4 Participants Last post by  Richard, 
R
I have the manual 9-9930, but as I work with it I realize that it does not seem to be the correct manual for my tractor, or at the very least the wiring diagram (pg 17) certainly is not. My diagram seems to be somewhere unknown, I have the parts manual (8-2752 - pg 74) and can see the diagram there; however, no color coding. I know that I am banging my head against the wall here, but its a thick head.

If anyone has the proper electrical diagram for this model I would appreciate it, even more than that I am looking to confirm the solenoid wiring. Specifically I am trying to confirm that the two yellow wires (one from the ignition, the other from the Neutral Start safety switch connect to the plugs (small terminals) on the solenoid. If so, which goes where? Or does it matter?

Thank you.
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H
I am not aware of an OP Manual that covers Onan powered tractors built after the serial number spread shown in 9-9930. As you probably know, the Eastman site has nothing to offer, either. No surprises there.

First off, the solenoid doesn't care which wire you connect to which small terminal. The solenoid is not "polarity sensitive". You are correct that the solenoid receives power from the START terminal on the ignition switch and that the other small terminal on the solenoid heads to the PTO safety switch and then to the Neutral Safety Switch under the travel lever. However, your tractor might also have an "Operator Presence Switch".. aka "seat switch" that will not allow the engine to start unless an operator of a certain minimum weight is sitting in the seat.

If the condition of the solenoid is in question, then connect the yellow lead coming from the ignition switch to the solenoid's small terminal and then run a temporary wire from the other small terminal to battery ground. Turn the key to start and the engine should spin over.

If you then remove the temporary wire, connect the loose yellow wire to the solenoid and find that the engine does not spin, then you have a safety switch issue that needs to be diagnosed.
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R
Thank you!
I do not have a seat switch, but I do have a wireing harness with one set up for it - Jumper is prepared so that I can jump it if needed - Brian was not sure if it should be open or closed.

I think I will post photos when done - and a clean color coded diagram. This has taken far to long for someone (me) who has started to get dirty looks from the boss.

I will post the results this afternoon.
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B
Richard, there is a O/M after 9930 ... it is 9-9960 for the final sequence of 226/446/448.

I'm still unsure what circuits you were trying to sort through on that new harness.

However, after we last traded messages, I did get a copy of 9-9960 in. I can't really scan the whole thing, but I will scan the wiring diagrams, including a supplemental page, and forward to Jack or Tom for posting with the Onan O/Ms in the file section.

Indeed, this manual shows now 2 derivatives of the wiring diagrams ... one with and one without the seat switch. I think your PIN precedes the seat switch. Maybe the yellow wire you are hunting is the neutral safety switch.

Brian
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R
Brian,
Thank you

I would appreecieatte that. Next order I will ask to add that manual in.
I will draw out what I have done and post it all for comment.
The yellow wire comes out of the ignition to a small post. There is another yellow wire with the samee post that does indeed connect to tthe neutral safety switch. I thoought that these two wiires would pigtail together to thee negative side of the solenoid. Howeverr that left nothing on the positive side. I have a feeling something is still messed up.
Thank you.
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R
Ok, Here is what I am looking at:


A is presently attached to the yellow wire coming from the ignition. B is attached to the Starter (did not touch that one) D has a wire going to the voltage sensor, one to the fuse, and one to the battery (positive side terminal).
So what attaches to B? I Thought it would be the other yellow wire (coming from the Neutral switch) but that does not seem to work.

And yes, I have checked that the safety switches are working, and have also tried with a bypass.

What am I missing?

Thank you.

Oh, and appreciate in the above post is spelled wrong, however, I cannot edit it.
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H
Richard said:
Ok, Here is what I am looking at:


A is presently attached to the yellow wire coming from the ignition. B is attached to the Starter (did not touch that one) D has a wire going to the voltage sensor, one to the fuse, and one to the battery (positive side terminal).
So what attaches to B? I Thought it would be the other yellow wire (coming from the Neutral switch) but that does not seem to work.

And yes, I have checked that the safety switches are working, and have also tried with a bypass.

What am I missing?

Thank you.

Oh, and appreciate in the above post is spelled wrong, however, I cannot edit it.
Click to expand...
Your text does not agree with the diagram.

You are correct that the Yellow wire from the ignition switch should go to PIN A on the solenoid. The other Yellow wire attaches to PIN B and goes to the safety switches.

PIN C.......which is a heavy lug that is threaded should have the cable that runs to the starter motor.... just as you show in your diagram and the other heavy lug with threads receives the battery + cable and also has wires on it that go to the FUSE and the Voltage Sensor.
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Bill.H
It looks like you have the high current (big wires and nuts) side correct, you're missing the ground side of the low current side (small terminals). Take a look at the simple diagram below:
[img=center:2h9s8gvb]http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/7154/simplesolenoid.jpg[/img:2h9s8gvb]
You have a wire coming from the IG switch that goes on one of the small terminals. When you turn the key that wire should have +12v on it.
The wire coming from the Neutral Safety Switch* should go to the other small terminal on the solenoid. That wire should have ground on it as long as you have the PTO off and the lever in Neutral.
Turning the key should energize the winding in the solenoid (+12 on one side, ground on the other) and move the internal contactor so that the + lead from the battery is connected to the starter. At that point, the starter should spin.
For now, just ignore the colors and trace the wires back to both the NSS and the ignition switch START terminal, and make sure they're connected to two (different! don't put them together!!) small terminals. If it doesn't turn over when you turn the key - after you've connected those 2 wires - you'll have to start troubleshooting with a meter or a trouble light or a jumper wire. A meter is best if you have one. Check the fuse first, it's easy to pop it if you're moving wires around and the battery is still connected.

Let us know. :thumbsup:

*Probably the NSS, I don't know how your tractor is wired. It might be coming from the PTO safety. At this point it doesn't matter as long as it has a ground on it.

Update: and I see Hydriv answered while I was out drawing the diagram :lol:
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R
Tom, Correct, the diagram was what I meant, translating I mixed up the letters. Bill H, and you, yes, I have traced it all back. I traced the circuit and I have connectivity to the coil; however, there seems to be a problem at the Neutral light - not the switch but the light. I can have a complete circuit from the yellow wire (starts at the solenoid) through the two switches, the light usually breaks the circuit so I use a wire there as a bypass, to the coil. All good.
I tried again with a bypass, engine will roll over, but no spark.
So to provide a complete picture, I am working with, new ignition switch, new wiring harness, new coil, new condenser (including the cap.). And the battery is on the charger now to top it off.
What else could I be missing?

I checked it all with the multi-meter and as mentioned the safety circut is good - only challenge is at the neutral bulb so I have bypassed the whole thing for now.

Thank you.
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H
If the PTO lever is not fully disengaged and/or the travel lever is not in neutral, then the solenoid will not be activated by the key switch and the engine will not turn over. You say that you can NOW get the engine to spin just by turning the key but........you have no spark. YES?????


If so, then you need to put a jumper across that plug for the seat switch. That's what the seat switch does.... it cuts power to the coil unless someone's butt is parked on the seat.
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R
Tom,
Jumper already in place. I was wondering if it was the reverse and tried it with and without.
I am still using the jumper across the negative to the solenoid as well. Until the engine runs it will make life easier. Other thoughts?
Anything I can provide?

Thank you
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H
As I understand it, you bought a new wiring harness from Brian.

Brian sent me the wiring diagram. According to that diagram, there is a GREY wire (12) that leaves the key switch and goes to the plug on the seat switch. From there, a BLACK/WHITE wire leaves that seat switch connector and goes to the + terminal on the ignition switch.

You need to get either a test light or a multi-meter so that you can check for 12 volts.......

- first at the keyswitch with the key in the ON position

- then at the connector for the seat switch

- then at the + terminal of the coil with the JUMPER installed in the seat switch connector.

There is also a TAN wire that goes to the + terminal of the coil and connects to the PTO switch but that is to provide power to light up the PTO warning light.
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R
Tom,
Yes, your correct, also when I arrived at work this AM I found that Brian had kindly sent me the wiring diagrams as well.
I checked the connectivity, from the ignition plug to the terminal on the coil (grey wire, through jumper to black and white wire) connectivity is good, and the V is 12.54. I notice that when I actually turn the key to start this drops down to 9.5 10 volts.
I checked the voltage at the condenser, and here is was the same - 12.54, when starting it would drop down. I thought that it would be higher at this point?

I rechecked the gap - seems good, and if needed will ask around for a timing light.
Next item I can check?


I really appreciate the time and effort you putting into this.

Thank you.
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