Rear PTO Valve question
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Probably little to none.
The 4 digit tractors started out using essentially the same rear PTO that has been in place since 1972 when they first started mounting them on a bracket behind the Operator's seat. Back then, they used steel lines to make the connection to the pump and Travel/lift valve and switched to hoses later on after Ingersoll took over. It should be a simple job but with anything "hydraulic", it can get messy with the oil that will come out every time you crack open a fitting. Drain pans/buckets and old rags plus kitty litter are essential.
Drop the deck on both tractors. Remove the hose from the IN port of the travel/lift valve on the 3012, leaving the fitting in the valve body behind. Disconnect the other line from the hose that comes from the pump and then swing the pump hose over to the IN port's fitting on the Travel/lift valve. You have now closed up the hydraulic system of your 3012 once again and it's ready for operation once you complete the task of undoing the rear bracket and cutting any cable ties that are securing the hoses. Extract the entire PTO valve/bracket and hose assembly. It's not a bad idea to install a couple plastic sandwich bags around the hose ends and secure them with elastic bands. This will keep any dirt from entering the hoses and also help control the spread of oil.
As for the 444, just reverse the procedure.
If your 3012 has the PTO control below the front of the Operator's seat, then the swap cannot be done.
The 4 digit tractors started out using essentially the same rear PTO that has been in place since 1972 when they first started mounting them on a bracket behind the Operator's seat. Back then, they used steel lines to make the connection to the pump and Travel/lift valve and switched to hoses later on after Ingersoll took over. It should be a simple job but with anything "hydraulic", it can get messy with the oil that will come out every time you crack open a fitting. Drain pans/buckets and old rags plus kitty litter are essential.
Drop the deck on both tractors. Remove the hose from the IN port of the travel/lift valve on the 3012, leaving the fitting in the valve body behind. Disconnect the other line from the hose that comes from the pump and then swing the pump hose over to the IN port's fitting on the Travel/lift valve. You have now closed up the hydraulic system of your 3012 once again and it's ready for operation once you complete the task of undoing the rear bracket and cutting any cable ties that are securing the hoses. Extract the entire PTO valve/bracket and hose assembly. It's not a bad idea to install a couple plastic sandwich bags around the hose ends and secure them with elastic bands. This will keep any dirt from entering the hoses and also help control the spread of oil.
As for the 444, just reverse the procedure.
If your 3012 has the PTO control below the front of the Operator's seat, then the swap cannot be done.
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1,514 Posts
tom, and club
what about the two inch difference in the wheel base?
even with hoses this may be hard to do??
thank you. boomer
what about the two inch difference in the wheel base?
even with hoses this may be hard to do??
thank you. boomer
Good call, Boomer.
You are right. The 3000 models retained the 46" wheelbase and since WVshooter's 444 is a 1980 model, it should be 48". He needs to measure the distance between the bottom of the dash tower and the bottom of the seat pedestal along the checker plate floor. If he has 15" there, then the lines will be too short. If he has 13", then he's OK.
I think that a good hydraulics shop should be able to come up with some extension fittings to solve the problem of the hoses being too short but a close inspection of the hoses should be done first. If there are any signs of the outer cover being compromised, then the braid just below should be checked for damage. Any broken wires.......just replace the hose now.
You are right. The 3000 models retained the 46" wheelbase and since WVshooter's 444 is a 1980 model, it should be 48". He needs to measure the distance between the bottom of the dash tower and the bottom of the seat pedestal along the checker plate floor. If he has 15" there, then the lines will be too short. If he has 13", then he's OK.
I think that a good hydraulics shop should be able to come up with some extension fittings to solve the problem of the hoses being too short but a close inspection of the hoses should be done first. If there are any signs of the outer cover being compromised, then the braid just below should be checked for damage. Any broken wires.......just replace the hose now.
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529 Posts
I was already figuring on replacing the hoses, as mine is the long wheelbase 444. My main concerns were about threads and fitting sizes being the same over the 10 year difference. I will likely be building a woodsplitter and maybe a hyd. dump cart for it.
You need to understand that the OEM PTO valve is designed primarily to run motors, not cylinders. To equate this to the world of electricity, the PTO is the same as an ON/OFF switch in the bathroom that controls the lights. The travel valve and the lift valve are different. They are designed to "meter" fluid .... slowly at first and then as you push the lever further, the amount of flow increases. This similar to having a dimmer switch on the chandelier in the dining room.
Therefore, you might find it wise to install a separate valve on the splitter you build and then use hoses and couplers to attach that to the OEM PTO valve. That way, you hook up the splitter, open the PTO valve on the tractor and then use the other valve to control the ram while splitting.
The dump trailer is a nice thing to have but once again the PTO valve poses a problem due to being an OFF/ON switch with little to no feathering ability. The second problem is the 2200 PSI setting of the relief valve. That's way too high for the cylinder. To solve the problem you need to install your own relief valve that is fully adjustable from say 300 to 1000 PSI. You would send fluid to the IN port of the relief and the OUT port would feed the bottom of the cylinder. The DUMP port of the relief would Tee into the line leaving the top of the cylinder. In order to control the speed of this cylinder, I would use 1/4" hoses because they deliver 1/4 the amount of oil that a 1/2" hose does. I would set the relief at its lowest point and then fill the trailer up with the heaviest load you ever expect to carry. Then I would try to lift that load. IF it did NOT lift, then I would adjust the relief higher until the load lifted to full height without hesitation.
Therefore, you might find it wise to install a separate valve on the splitter you build and then use hoses and couplers to attach that to the OEM PTO valve. That way, you hook up the splitter, open the PTO valve on the tractor and then use the other valve to control the ram while splitting.
The dump trailer is a nice thing to have but once again the PTO valve poses a problem due to being an OFF/ON switch with little to no feathering ability. The second problem is the 2200 PSI setting of the relief valve. That's way too high for the cylinder. To solve the problem you need to install your own relief valve that is fully adjustable from say 300 to 1000 PSI. You would send fluid to the IN port of the relief and the OUT port would feed the bottom of the cylinder. The DUMP port of the relief would Tee into the line leaving the top of the cylinder. In order to control the speed of this cylinder, I would use 1/4" hoses because they deliver 1/4 the amount of oil that a 1/2" hose does. I would set the relief at its lowest point and then fill the trailer up with the heaviest load you ever expect to carry. Then I would try to lift that load. IF it did NOT lift, then I would adjust the relief higher until the load lifted to full height without hesitation.
I would consider installing a used travel/lift valve instead of the PTO valve. Use the travel portion for the splitter and the lift for the dump trailer. This also would allow you to 'soft start' any motors you may use in the future, such as a hyd mower.
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