Repower Vanguard 4016 to 23hp Vanguard
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Yes it was fast and it surprised me too! SEW is in Indiana and I'm in Michigan so it wasn't a long trip here.
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I had a pretty productive day today. I loaded the tractor on the trailer and took it across town to my dad's for the moral support, heated shop space, cold beer, and access to the welder, Bridgeport, and sheetmetal fab tools. I started the 16hp for the last time to unload it from the trailer and it fired up but shot some ring gear teeth off on the ground in violent fashion 😬
I used a straight edge across the faces of the pulley to mark the belt alignment on the frame and disconnected everything
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I used a straight edge across the faces of the pulley to mark the belt alignment on the frame and disconnected everything
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With the 16hp off the frame, I loosely bolted up the clutch on the new 23hp and set it in place to get an idea of how everything lines up. I jockied it around until the pulley was aligned with the marks I made from the 16hp.
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With the engine shifted forward a few inches thanks to the new clutch with the inboard pulley, I have a ton of room on the flywheel side. I'm thinking the SEW spacer I bought (JD318 Onan to Vanguard) will need about an inch taken off the length to be correct plus the aforementioned raised pilot and new bolt circle. The length was the big question. Tomorrow I'm going to pull the blower housing and debris screen off, mock it up again, and take an accurate measurement from the face of the pump adapter to the face of the flywheel.
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With the engine in it's correct location, I tried closing the hood with no luck. I took the side inserts and the heat shield out and it almost made it. It has about an inch left to go before it hits the taller air cleaner lid. It looks like raising the hood at the hinge by about an inch will work.
The clutch anti-rotation bracket i just bought doesn't fit either. I used the one referenced earlier in the thread in a print for a 4023 application and it's intended for the old style clutch with slots in the 5 o'clock and 7 o'clock positions. My clutch looks like the 4023 that Bob shared a picture of with holes every 120-degrees. No problem though - have welder, will modify.
With the engine shifted forward a few inches thanks to the new clutch with the inboard pulley, I have a ton of room on the flywheel side. I'm thinking the SEW spacer I bought (JD318 Onan to Vanguard) will need about an inch taken off the length to be correct plus the aforementioned raised pilot and new bolt circle. The length was the big question. Tomorrow I'm going to pull the blower housing and debris screen off, mock it up again, and take an accurate measurement from the face of the pump adapter to the face of the flywheel.
With the engine in it's correct location, I tried closing the hood with no luck. I took the side inserts and the heat shield out and it almost made it. It has about an inch left to go before it hits the taller air cleaner lid. It looks like raising the hood at the hinge by about an inch will work.
The clutch anti-rotation bracket i just bought doesn't fit either. I used the one referenced earlier in the thread in a print for a 4023 application and it's intended for the old style clutch with slots in the 5 o'clock and 7 o'clock positions. My clutch looks like the 4023 that Bob shared a picture of with holes every 120-degrees. No problem though - have welder, will modify.
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4,368 Posts
Nice work. For some reason I thought you were replacing an Onan. Doi. [When are we going to get back some decent [email protected]#$ing emojis?] Your repower makes a lot more sense. Is 1000 hours the average lifespan of these motors?
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Yes, emojis on this site blow!
Also yes, If I was replacing an Onan this job would be done already. Thats why I had to do all the research on the SEW repower kit for Onan powered Ingersolls - to find out the Vanguard in that kit won't fit my Vanguard tractor.
I honestly dont know what the lifespan on the Vanguards are. I've heard everywhere between 1000-1500/hrs. Mine at 1100/hrs was burning some oil on startup and sometimes while running but I also bought the tractor for $100 four years ago and don't know what kind of care it received prior to me. If I hadn't tore up the flywheel Im confident it would have ran at least another two years.
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177 Posts
I pulled the blower housing and debris screen today and mocked the new engine up in the frame to measure the distance between the pump coupler face and the flywheel fan face. I will need to basically machine the SEW spacer I bought in half, down to 1.900". The pump coupler bolt circle is the same as the bolt circle in the flywheel at 2-7/8" so I could either bolt the spacer down with two bolts and run some long bolts through the coupler and spacer but I'm thinking drilling and tapping the spacer for the coupler will make removal easier down the road.
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After a few beers and some bench racing with my dad and brother, I found a new home for the old engine after I freshen it up. My aunt bought this minibike new in 2000, my dad assembled it, and we all enjoyed it as kids. When they outgrew it, it sat in the shed for 15yrs. She called me this fall and asked me to come get it and make it great again. Challenge accepted.
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It's hard to believe but the Vanguard actually fits where the 3.5hp came out and even shares the same motor plate slots 😅
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It's hard to believe but the Vanguard actually fits where the 3.5hp came out and even shares the same motor plate slots 😅
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177 Posts
Haha I think a Cushman is three times bigger than this thing. It's not even a minibike, it's an engine on two dinky wheels 😅 My hand dolly has bigger wheels. I'm 6'1 and will look like a clown riding this thing but at least it will sound cool!
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Hi FastEddie,
A few suggestions:
You will need to remove the blower housing to be able to remove the debris screen to cut a hole in it to fit around the aluminum adapter. Cut the hole a little smaller and bend the edge inward toward the flywheel. Fill the engine with 5W-30 regular engine oil, with a drill and a socket the size of the flywheel nut, the spark plugs removed and spark testers on the wires, crank the engine clockwise to prime the engine with oil. I recommend that you use regular engine (not synthetic) oil for the first 50 hours to allow the rings to seat and the engine 'coke up'. After 50 hours you may use full synthetic engine oil from then on. The anti-torque arm on the hydraulic pump has a cushion mounted to it which may also have a stud that connects to the tractor. If the cushion has this extra stud, cut it off or replace the cushion with a new one with a single stud. This will allow the pump to seek its own position against the tractor frame. See if the muffler from the 16 lines up with the exhaust ports on the 23 and let me know. Meanwhile, if the muffler from the 16 is still serviceable, there may be someone that could use it as they are no longer available.
On the oil filter housing on the 23 is a pressure switch. This can be used as a low oil pressure shutdown or connected to a low oil pressure indicator light on the panel. I have been adding a light on the panel for this purpose. You will need to fabricate a cowl to close up the gap between the blower housing and the plate on the front of the hyd oil tank otherwise the hyd oil cooler will not get sufficient air flow to cool the oil particularly if you operate any attachments off the rear hydraulic PTO.
Enjoy!
A few suggestions:
You will need to remove the blower housing to be able to remove the debris screen to cut a hole in it to fit around the aluminum adapter. Cut the hole a little smaller and bend the edge inward toward the flywheel. Fill the engine with 5W-30 regular engine oil, with a drill and a socket the size of the flywheel nut, the spark plugs removed and spark testers on the wires, crank the engine clockwise to prime the engine with oil. I recommend that you use regular engine (not synthetic) oil for the first 50 hours to allow the rings to seat and the engine 'coke up'. After 50 hours you may use full synthetic engine oil from then on. The anti-torque arm on the hydraulic pump has a cushion mounted to it which may also have a stud that connects to the tractor. If the cushion has this extra stud, cut it off or replace the cushion with a new one with a single stud. This will allow the pump to seek its own position against the tractor frame. See if the muffler from the 16 lines up with the exhaust ports on the 23 and let me know. Meanwhile, if the muffler from the 16 is still serviceable, there may be someone that could use it as they are no longer available.
On the oil filter housing on the 23 is a pressure switch. This can be used as a low oil pressure shutdown or connected to a low oil pressure indicator light on the panel. I have been adding a light on the panel for this purpose. You will need to fabricate a cowl to close up the gap between the blower housing and the plate on the front of the hyd oil tank otherwise the hyd oil cooler will not get sufficient air flow to cool the oil particularly if you operate any attachments off the rear hydraulic PTO.
Enjoy!
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3,308 Posts
Another suggestion:
When you do the final installation of the clutch, remove the spacer, apply a thin coat of anti-seize compound the the crankshaft, slip the spacer and washer back on and reapply a thin coat to the crankshaft. This will make removing the clutch if needed in the future a much easier job. You can hold the pump drive adapter with an open end wrench, 1 3/8" I think, and torque the pump adapter bolts and the clutch bolt.
When you do the final installation of the clutch, remove the spacer, apply a thin coat of anti-seize compound the the crankshaft, slip the spacer and washer back on and reapply a thin coat to the crankshaft. This will make removing the clutch if needed in the future a much easier job. You can hold the pump drive adapter with an open end wrench, 1 3/8" I think, and torque the pump adapter bolts and the clutch bolt.
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177 Posts
Thanks for the suggestions Bob!
I haven't figured out what to do with the debris shield yet. The aluminum flywheel adapter will be completely inside the blower housing. If I cut small holes in it for the pump shaft and to get a socket in to remove the pump adapter bolts, I won't be able to get it back inside the blower housing as it has a lip that prevents you from removing it with the housing in place. I'm throwing around the idea of cutting a hole in the center of the shield to clear the pump shaft and cutting the shield in half across two of the bolt holes then using larger washers to keep it secured.
The pump anti-torque arm on this tractor already has the one stud cushion so the pump is free to move forward or backward a little. If my measurements were any good, the flywheel adapter should put it in the original location.
The original muffler doesn't fit the 23hp engine. The spread on the heads is maybe 1/2" more than the 16hp. The muffler itself is junkola as I've booger welded it three times and I'm pretty sure one of the baffles is loose and rattling around inside. The old clutch is up for grabs though if anyone needs one. It's an ExtremeOPE unit I put on two years ago and was working great when I pulled the engine.
I removed the hour meter from my dash and replaced it with a mechanical oil pressure gauge so the low oil shutdown switch will either disappear or I'll use a tee to have both the gauge and the switch. I have to read on whether the switch is for a dummy light or low oil shutdown. I haven't even opened the literature on this thing yet.
Also 10-4 on breaking it in with conventional and using antiseize on the crank. I don't have a spacer on this one, just the clutch and the washer. I'll break it in with the Briggs filter before I switch to the Motorcraft FL400. I do need to fab up a cowl too, there's a pretty sizeable gap between the blower housing and hydraulic tank now. Yours turned out nice so I'll be using it as my inspiration.
I haven't figured out what to do with the debris shield yet. The aluminum flywheel adapter will be completely inside the blower housing. If I cut small holes in it for the pump shaft and to get a socket in to remove the pump adapter bolts, I won't be able to get it back inside the blower housing as it has a lip that prevents you from removing it with the housing in place. I'm throwing around the idea of cutting a hole in the center of the shield to clear the pump shaft and cutting the shield in half across two of the bolt holes then using larger washers to keep it secured.
The pump anti-torque arm on this tractor already has the one stud cushion so the pump is free to move forward or backward a little. If my measurements were any good, the flywheel adapter should put it in the original location.
The original muffler doesn't fit the 23hp engine. The spread on the heads is maybe 1/2" more than the 16hp. The muffler itself is junkola as I've booger welded it three times and I'm pretty sure one of the baffles is loose and rattling around inside. The old clutch is up for grabs though if anyone needs one. It's an ExtremeOPE unit I put on two years ago and was working great when I pulled the engine.
I removed the hour meter from my dash and replaced it with a mechanical oil pressure gauge so the low oil shutdown switch will either disappear or I'll use a tee to have both the gauge and the switch. I have to read on whether the switch is for a dummy light or low oil shutdown. I haven't even opened the literature on this thing yet.
Also 10-4 on breaking it in with conventional and using antiseize on the crank. I don't have a spacer on this one, just the clutch and the washer. I'll break it in with the Briggs filter before I switch to the Motorcraft FL400. I do need to fab up a cowl too, there's a pretty sizeable gap between the blower housing and hydraulic tank now. Yours turned out nice so I'll be using it as my inspiration.
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Horizontal Vanguards don't like Motorcraft FL400 filters! They leakdown or syphon oil back into the engine and give a false engine oil level reading. I used FL400s on Onans for years with no problem.
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177 Posts
Now that's interesting and the first I've heard of this! I have been using the FL400 on my Vanguard for four years. I put a mechanical oil pressure gauge on it and you'd think if the filter was draining down it would take a few seconds to build oil pressure but mine builds as soon as I hit the key. I changed the oil cold one time after sitting overnight and the filter was full of oil so I wonder if the design has changed in recent years.
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You could cut the screen in half and cut the area around the coupling to fit. I do this on stock Vanguard powered tractors. I think that the screen halves will come off the fan and out from under the blower housing. Be careful with the screws that hold the screen to the fan as there are threaded brass inserts in the plastic fan.
You can drill out the spot welds that hold the hood hinge on and make up an extension to raise the front of the hood. you will also need to shorten the heat shield in the hood as the new engine is forward. If I recall, I used 1/8" X 1 1/2" flat bar, maybe 2" and utilized the holes to bolt on the extension.
You can drill out the spot welds that hold the hood hinge on and make up an extension to raise the front of the hood. you will also need to shorten the heat shield in the hood as the new engine is forward. If I recall, I used 1/8" X 1 1/2" flat bar, maybe 2" and utilized the holes to bolt on the extension.
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