Case Colt Ingersoll Tractors banner
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,618 Posts
I have owned and operated skid steer loaders since 1975. I have operated them with snow buckets, plain edge digging buckets, grapple buckets and forks. I've also used hydraulic post hole diggers and rear mounted scarifiers. The 1840 Case in that video is very familiar to me as we've owned about six or so of them and we still have the 1845 which is the bigger brother of that series. I can't say that I'm particularly impressed with what I saw in the video. The tree stump selected for removal had been dead many, many years. I could have popped that sucker out of there just as easily with the forks. The same holds true with placing rocks or boulders. The forks are amazing once you know how to utilize them. I just don't see this spade as being beneficial for those operations.

Now, for digging holes to plant trees, then this might have some positives because it removes more dirt from the hole than what the forks alone would. All the same, it's slow compared to a post hole auger with a proper tree auger on it or using a tree spade. As a trenching device, it is also painfully slow and messy. You will rip the crap out of any lawn whether you use a two-wheel drive tractor or a skid steer. You are far better off with a Mini-EX on tracks or a Ditch Witch style of chain trencher. In all fairness, could this thing solve the odd problem rather cheaply? If you only had six small trees to plant and the tire skid marks didn't concern you too much, then it would likely work OK in decent ground. Did you notice that all these demos were done in soft, loamy soil that was deep? Is there a reason why they did not show you how well it works in hard, dry clay? Figure it out.

There's a reason why Case offered the 644, 646 and 648 models with a backhoe.

The site does not tell you the cost of this device and that annoys me. They only show it in combination with a skid steer or a Compact Utility Tractor, both of which outweigh and have more HP than your 444 does. Without the optional fork attachment for your loader, you would be limited as to how deep you can dig. I'm not sure that you can move the forks that close together on a 600 series. Perhaps if you told us more about what you are trying to do with the 644, we might be able to advise you better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the detail. I was just hoping the spade could be an el cheapo, crappy (and painfully slow but still better than hand digging) version of a backhoe for light duty stuff. I don't expect the need to dig frequently so I don't mind it being slow and painful, at least that's what I'm thinking now.

This tractor will be my first experience ever with a loader or any hydraulic. The loader is my biggest need. As to possible uses for the spade... I have plans to trench ~500' for wiring through my gravel driveway (which I had previously planned to do with a trencher or plow type implement on my 2-wheel tractor), digging holes for tree plantings will come, digging out/transporting rocks, loosening up soil/gravel for grading, breaking up small tree roots. I don't expect to completely avoid hand digging/scooping.

That spade I linked is available from Northern Tool for $280.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _200356535
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,618 Posts
That was a helpful link. I read all 20 of the reviews and they surprised me. Apparently, this tool works much better than I thought it would.

HOWEVER..... Paumco does not state that this shovel will work with a garden tractor and essentially..... the 600 Series are garden tractor sized units. The main issue here is operating weight with HP being somewhat secondary. In order to get traction, you need weight bearing down on the contact patch of the tires to force them against the ground they are sitting on. Weight also factors in when driving the spade into the ground as does HP.

So....here's what I'm thinking. Make your own. But scale it down to suit your loader. Maybe there's a local dealer that has one of these in stock. If so, go there with a measuring tape and make a drawing of it with dimensions. Build the thing out of the same thickness of material but make it narrower. You could leave your bucket on and fashion a strong pole made from heavy wall tubing that bolted to the bottom of the bucket at the rear but clipped over the front cutting edge and clamped down on it to keep it from sliding sideways. Reinforce the top of the bucket and run the heavy chain from there to the pole where it clamps onto the bucket. Use one of the screw-type chain binders to snug up the chain so you don't WOW the cutting edge of the bucket.

If you are crossing the gravel drive, that's one thing but if you have to trench 500 feet of packed gravel, then you need to reconsider the tool for this task.

You should consider buying or making a tooth bar that will clip onto your bucket and bolt in place with just two bolts. ONE bolt per bucket side plate. Bucket teeth make a huge difference in bucket performance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hydriv, you make good points. I like the idea of a narrowed spade suited to the 644. Also had wondered about the tooth bar (didn't realize before what they were called).

This time of year, the gravel driveway is actually kind of soft, relatively... maybe I can get lucky. Yeah once summer hits, it becomes cement. I've dug it before (small areas) and have to use a very heavy steel pole and man I don't know if there's anything else that gives me such a workout so quickly.

Will be curious to hear how it works for you gator.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I ended purchasing this spade attachment for my 644:
http://www.bucketsolutions.com/Quick-Attach-Spade.html

It's a very solid, heavy piece but easy to install on the bucket. After adding ~250 lbs to the ballast box, I was able to get good results. It does not work as well as shown in the video but it works better than I hoped and I've already used it to dig 2 trenches, still in process. Takes some practice but gets easier each time.
 

·
Tractor Whisper
Joined
·
3,703 Posts
I have not used mind I read where you need take grinder and sharpen shovel what do you thing about that should make easier to go in ground?

I have several ditches to dig for drip irrigation line winter projects and like make dip in ground side young trees for water and fertilizer this keep water fertilizer off trunk and tape root.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Sharpening may help, it would also help if it had a more pointed shape, but then it doesn't function as well as a shovel. You could also try adding weight to the front. I'm happy with how it works and I have difficult soil, lots of clay & rock. For the initial dig, I point the spade down and use the weight to dig, as shown in the video, but then I find it more effective to angle the spade and drive in the spade by moving the tractor forward. That's where the additional rear weight was a huge help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
I have not looked at the item referred to here, but I did read about the poster's need to bury some wire along a 500' driveway.

I eventually want to do that too. And when I do I intend to build something like this.
It is called a Cable Plow, and there are some commercial units that do this.
If you are a fabricator, you may try to fashion something like this before I do?

The wire rolls off of the spool and is fed into the slit in the soil/grass created by the single disc wheel and the sharpened bar through the wire guide tubing. Having down pressure, that these tractors have, would help alot. I imagine this rig or something similar, could be on a 3-pt hitch or even on the FEL.



John
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,618 Posts
Such devices are fine when you are wanting to bury wire for an Invisible Fence to keep your dog on the property or you have a cable TV wire that needs to be placed below the sod. However, it is illegal to use such a device to bury Class 1 electrical wiring that will carry electrical current higher than 25 volts. Such wiring comes under the Electrical Code and there are strict rules regarding how deep the wire must be buried, the type of wire used and whether conduit must be used. Depending upon the voltage, there may be requirements for the wiring to be protected by a continuous run of 2 X 6 pressure treated lumber directly over the wire/conduit along with RED vinyl tape with Danger - High Voltage written on it that is placed in the upper 12 inches of the trench.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
25 volts...? you mean amps?

On one of my buildings that has it's own meter and main breaker, on a pole 25 or so feet from the building I have 240/120vac @ 100 amps running underground. That was done by me as per Ohio Power's recommendations. I used a backhoe and metal conduit and have no boards or signs.

You may be thinking of commercial installations on public roads or public property?

John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,348 Posts
John

I replyed to your un-edited post and have since read the complete post.

Electrical regulations vary in local laws.

Here in Sask for SP 120/240 It requires Underground Rated cable 18" with PVC where it exits the Ground.

Metal Condiut is no longer acceptable underground. PVC can be used but still requires underground rated cable.

Any Voltage over 240 requires the pressure treated lumber and Danger Tape.

once again Location,Location is the determine factor :trink:

:crazy: :canada:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
Roger on all. It is virtually impossible to cover all bases when mearly trying to depict a basic idea.

I don't think like a lawyer or code-enforcer, therefore, I never even dreamed that someone would look at a picture of a device for cable-plowing a CATV coax....and then exactly duplicate it (because he saw a picture) and use it to do something totally different, like bury service-entrance cable, with the same device.

I guess, I should be be more cautious...or I'll get sued or fined or jailed?

John
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,618 Posts
If you read my post again......slowly.... :lol: you will see that I said: " Such wiring comes under the Electrical Code and there are strict rules regarding how deep the wire must be buried, the type of wire used and whether conduit must be used. Depending upon the voltage, there may be requirements for the wiring to be protected by a continuous run of 2 X 6 pressure treated lumber directly over the wire/conduit along with RED vinyl tape with Danger - High Voltage written on it that is placed in the upper 12 inches of the trench."

If you were mislead by my use of the word "current", then I apologize. I should have said voltage.

Different jurisdictions often have different requirements when burying electrical wires. When I installed a 44,000 volt feeder underground for some friends of mine, the authority insisted on the pressure treated 2 X 6 to be installed over the plastic pipe/conduit with the single wire in it AFTER there was six inches of sand covering the conduit. We used a chain trencher to cut the 500 foot slot four feet deep to reach the pre-cast concrete vault where the power transformer was to sit.

Every installation will have it's own set of standards.

Your post spoke about the OP's desire to run unspecified wire along a 500 ft driveway and you went on further to comment on the down pressure capabilities of these tractors. Presumably, "these tractors" refer to CCI units.

I am not trying to bust your balls at every turn but we have a strict policy when it comes to any discussion that may relate to the personal safety of members. No matter what, we make sure that the members are fully informed about risks that arise in posts. I said what I said because I don't want anyone leaping to the conclusion that electrical wiring carrying household line voltages of 110/220 AC can be buried in shallow trenches. Cable plows used by most utilities bury co-axial TV cable at least a foot below finished grade and those machine are a lot heavier than any CASE GT. In addition, they are 4 wheel hydrostatic drive and the cable plow has a vibrator on it to break the soil along its route.

The device you depict is OK for cutting a slot 3 to 4 inches deep...meaning.. just below the level of the sod. That is perfect for electronic pet fencing but little else.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top