anyone who might be able to shed some wisdom on this one. 1973 case 222, took some readings on my charging system last night, with the engine running about 3/4 throttle reading across the bat and f terminals on the regulator about 8VDC, then i ground the f terminal and read again, this time reading 15.5VDC upwards to 16.3VDC. Not sure what to make of this. the 8VDC reading leads me to believe the start/gen is failing, however withe the added f terminal ground reading close to and sometimes over 16VDC maybe its the regulator? maybe both? Thoughts?
start/gen ,regulator issue?
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One of the advantages of membership to this forum happens to be access to the largest Tech Library for Colt, Case and Ingersoll Manuals found anywhere on the internet. If you click on this link
http://www.manuals.casecoltingersoll.co ... marked.pdf
you will find a Service Manual that will explain everything about your Start/gen electrical system including what voltages you should expect to find at key spots. Now.. after devouring that manual and conducting those tests, you find that you still have questions then by all means ask away.
If your gen was failing, then you would not see nearly 16 volts being produced. However, you cannot judge a Start/Gen's condition solely on the basis of voltage output. Bad bearings, well worn brushes, weakened brush springs due to over-heating, badly scored commutator or massive dirt accumulation around the brushes cannot be detected with a multi-meter. IF your gen has not been apart for who knows how long, the warm summer months are a nice time to perform this task. Maybe all it needs for the moment is a good cleaning but at least you will end up with a good idea as to how much life it still has left before needing to be rebuilt. If it looks sketchy, then source out a cheap core and have it rebuilt by a Pro shop now. Keep it on the shelf just as you keep a spare tire in the trunk. You hope you never have to use but the comfort factor is worth the price paid.
http://www.manuals.casecoltingersoll.co ... marked.pdf
you will find a Service Manual that will explain everything about your Start/gen electrical system including what voltages you should expect to find at key spots. Now.. after devouring that manual and conducting those tests, you find that you still have questions then by all means ask away.
If your gen was failing, then you would not see nearly 16 volts being produced. However, you cannot judge a Start/Gen's condition solely on the basis of voltage output. Bad bearings, well worn brushes, weakened brush springs due to over-heating, badly scored commutator or massive dirt accumulation around the brushes cannot be detected with a multi-meter. IF your gen has not been apart for who knows how long, the warm summer months are a nice time to perform this task. Maybe all it needs for the moment is a good cleaning but at least you will end up with a good idea as to how much life it still has left before needing to be rebuilt. If it looks sketchy, then source out a cheap core and have it rebuilt by a Pro shop now. Keep it on the shelf just as you keep a spare tire in the trunk. You hope you never have to use but the comfort factor is worth the price paid.
i have spent many hours reading all that the tech section has to offer, thats why i posted, to see if anyone has had a similar problem and any advice they could offer
Perhaps I am just not understanding the issue here.
I'm assuming that your battery is being recharged just fine. There's adequate power to run the engine and lights as well. So if I'm right, then I don't see the problem that you apparently see. The Service Manual sets out what tests you should make and what the results should be for those tests. If you are saying that you did such and such a test and did not see the voltage on your multi-meter that the manual said you should, then I would agree that you may have an issue.
These may be old technology systems but millions of them were sold and I wouldn't even hazard a guess as to how many are still in active duty today. Not much goes wrong with them electrically unless there is a hard starting problem with the engine. That's when the heartaches begin because owners crank the engine for far too long, overheat the start winding, overheat the brush springs and cause major arcing to the commutator. I understand that you believe you MAY have a problem but I'm looking for some sort of confirmation to that based upon the tests set out in the manual.
What can you add to this conversation to explain this better? :trink:
I'm assuming that your battery is being recharged just fine. There's adequate power to run the engine and lights as well. So if I'm right, then I don't see the problem that you apparently see. The Service Manual sets out what tests you should make and what the results should be for those tests. If you are saying that you did such and such a test and did not see the voltage on your multi-meter that the manual said you should, then I would agree that you may have an issue.
These may be old technology systems but millions of them were sold and I wouldn't even hazard a guess as to how many are still in active duty today. Not much goes wrong with them electrically unless there is a hard starting problem with the engine. That's when the heartaches begin because owners crank the engine for far too long, overheat the start winding, overheat the brush springs and cause major arcing to the commutator. I understand that you believe you MAY have a problem but I'm looking for some sort of confirmation to that based upon the tests set out in the manual.
What can you add to this conversation to explain this better? :trink:
perhaps its just me but i believe that the reading at the voltage regulator with the machine running at 3/4 throttle should be 13 to 14VDC not 8VDC
Ken,
I went through the two manuals we currently have in the Library that apply to the Start/Gen systems and was unable to find any voltage reference to the spot where you are placing your probes. In my opinion, you should be measuring the output from the Field terminal to ground and not the Field terminal and Batt terminal. I don't have a schematic of the regulator itself to see exactly what you are measuring across in order to get that 8 volt reading that you are concerned about.
The only way I see your question being answered would be if several of the members put their meters across the same two terminals on their tractors with the engine running at 3/4 throttle and noted the voltage. I suspect that the 8 volt reading is likely normal but I can understand why you would want some confirmation to that effect.
I went through the two manuals we currently have in the Library that apply to the Start/Gen systems and was unable to find any voltage reference to the spot where you are placing your probes. In my opinion, you should be measuring the output from the Field terminal to ground and not the Field terminal and Batt terminal. I don't have a schematic of the regulator itself to see exactly what you are measuring across in order to get that 8 volt reading that you are concerned about.
The only way I see your question being answered would be if several of the members put their meters across the same two terminals on their tractors with the engine running at 3/4 throttle and noted the voltage. I suspect that the 8 volt reading is likely normal but I can understand why you would want some confirmation to that effect.
I think the reading you are taking is erroneous. F to Bat is a meaningless measurement as both have voltage from a different source. F has excitation voltage supplied by the regulator while Bat has the output of the generator that is supplied to the battery.. I think that reading taken there will be the difference in the voltages and that is dependent on the state of battery charge. All voltage measurements should reference ground, not another voltage source.
I think the proper test is Arm to ground and Bat to ground This will directly read generator output and regulator output to the battery.
Shorting the field when running will effectively bypass the regulator and cause maximum generator output.
I think the proper test is Arm to ground and Bat to ground This will directly read generator output and regulator output to the battery.
Shorting the field when running will effectively bypass the regulator and cause maximum generator output.
kenc ,
thanks for the clarification. The 8VDC i was reading was at the regulator across bat and f. So thats probably a bad reading. I will check from A term on start/gen to ground and see what I get.
thanks for the clarification. The 8VDC i was reading was at the regulator across bat and f. So thats probably a bad reading. I will check from A term on start/gen to ground and see what I get.
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