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What colour should the starter /generator on a 1968 195 be. Case red or black , the whole motor is Case red . I would like this machine to look original. Thanks oldfrank.
 

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This is a topic that has been somewhat debated between Chris (Phaon) and myself..... with no real resolution. :sidelaugh: I prefer to rely upon what the SALES BROCHURES show because I believe that they are correct. The 130/180 tractors came with Flambeau Red Kohlers but the start/gens were black. The 120/150/190/155/195 models were all fitted with Flambeau Red Kohlers and the start/gens were painted to match.

Chris believes that the start/gens were black on those models.

When it comes to these tractors, there are FOUR things that get replaced more than anything else and those are the seats, mufflers, clutches and start/gens. When it comes to start/gens, most of those end up at a local auto electric shop for rebuilding where they get dismantled totally first. Then all of the parts get sandblasted to remove all of the old paint and any rust. No rebuilder keeps any other paint colour beyond basic black and that's why I believe you see black start/gens on these models. I still come across the odd, totally original tractor that is still sporting the original start/gen that is painted Flambeau. Either that tractor did not see a lot of use over the years or someone just did their own repairs, as needed.

Those are my thoughts on the subject. I'd like to hear from oldcasecoltguy and horton20 on this issue because they have seen more of these tractors over the years than I have.
 

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All the nice original Case 130, 180, 120, 150, 190 & T90's i've seen have the Starter/Generator painted Flambeau Red.
All the nice original Case 155 & 195's I've seen have the Starter/Generator painted a Semi-Gloss Black.

I think that maybe you are reading too much in to the colored sales literature, the people who where responsible for the sales literature, were not the same ones who were assembling the tractors on the floor, so most likely that is where the difference comes in.

Most likely in the early years they mounted the Starter/Generator on the engine and then painted the whole works Flambeau Red, in the later years they mounted the Semi-Gloss Black Starter/Generator on the engine after they had painted the engine Flambeau Red.

In my opinion, a Starter/Generator painted Flambeau Red looks like crap, it would look much better painted semi-gloss black.

I spent 10 years as a Mechanic and Service Manager in a Chevrolet/Buick Dealership in the late 50's to the late 60's, the Delco Remy Starters and Generators were always painted a Semi-Gloss Black when they came from Delco-Remy and mounted on the engine.

Hydriv said:
This is a topic that has been somewhat debated between Chris (Phaon) and myself..... with no real resolution. :sidelaugh: I prefer to rely upon what the SALES BROCHURES show because I believe that they are correct. The 130/180 tractors came with Flambeau Red Kohlers but the start/gens were black. The 120/150/190/155/195 models were all fitted with Flambeau Red Kohlers and the start/gens were painted to match.

Chris believes that the start/gens were black on those models.

When it comes to these tractors, there are FOUR things that get replaced more than anything else and those are the seats, mufflers, clutches and start/gens. When it comes to start/gens, most of those end up at a local auto electric shop for rebuilding where they get dismantled totally first. Then all of the parts get sandblasted to remove all of the old paint and any rust. No rebuilder keeps any other paint colour beyond basic black and that's why I believe you see black start/gens on these models. I still come across the odd, totally original tractor that is still sporting the original start/gen that is painted Flambeau. Either that tractor did not see a lot of use over the years or someone just did their own repairs, as needed.

Those are my thoughts on the subject. I'd like to hear from oldcasecoltguy and horton20 on this issue because they have seen more of these tractors over the years than I have.
 

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Ha, you're right Hydriv, this is a bit of a good natured discussion among us. Here's the history - I have what I'm assuming is much of the same sales literature, and yes, it all shows red Starter/Gen's. However, I own two 155's. The one that you see in my profile, and an old parts tractor that has been in my family for 40 years.

Both are second owner tractors. And both came with *complete* maintenance records from the original owners (my parts tractor was kept by the dealership to move crates around their warehouse, so technically we were first owners). Neither tractor's records indicate a repaint, and visual evidence on the machines backs this up. There was no evidence anywhere of a repaint on either machine, and both showed appropriate wear and tear on the original paint for the lives they led.

Neither tractor's records indicate that the starter/gen was replaced either or rebuilt, and paint on mounting bolts backs this up. Both are black. The GT guy at the local dealership where I went as a kid was a 100 series enthusiast who sold these units new. He has (or had then, I haven't seen him in years) a complete 100 series collection. All of his 155/195 units had black starter/gens, and all his other 100 series were red.

Here's what I think we can assume based on the fact that both Hydriv and I have pretty good evidence to back up our stances. I believe that all 1968 155/195 machines had black starter/gen's. Both of my 155's are 1968. As for '67, it's very likely that they were red early in the run, since Case/Colt has a history of sticking whatever was left on the shelf on these tractors. I believe all 120/150/190/T-90 were red, as Hydriv indicates. 130 and 180, I have no idea, as I have no first hand evidence for those.

My advice – if you think you can deduce what the original color was – keep it. Use the serial number database to back up your findings. If it is indeed a 1968 195, I'd vote for black. Early in the run in '67, probably red. In the middle.... no clue. :sidelaugh:

Chris
 
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