Hydriv said:
KK,
Is your tractor 5 years old or is it 25 years old?
Is it not fair to say that engineers have to consider several factors when designing tractor components?
- the strength of the component
- the durability of the component
- the end cost of the component
would seem important to the President of the company that employs him or her.
In this instance, the steering shaft, gear and lower brace have proven to be both strong and durable while keeping the manufacturing cost down. Did you not just say to me that Ingersoll tractors are over priced? And yet, here you are complaining that they did not add a grease fitting and an oilite bushing, both of which would have increased the manufacturing cost and the assembly cost and added another part that would need to be stocked and inventoried.
In another thread, you produced a lift arm with a telescopic spring-loaded feature that would also be costly to make compared to the one chosen by the factory. Once again, you are doing things that would jack up the tractor price even more than it was. I certainly admire your ingenuity and your skills in the fabrication and machining side of things but realistically speaking, you could literally go through your tractor from end to end, redesigning and improving existing parts to the point where the ten grand Ingersoll you are complaining about would have to cost twenty grand.
In a nutshell KK, you can't have it both ways. Parts do wear out. To date, no one has ever complained about a lift arm being inadequate nor have I seen complaints about premature failure of steering shafts or the pinion gears. To be fair, I have seen complaints about the stamped steel quadrant gears and the aluminum mandrels on mowing decks but guess what? Ingersoll went back to cast iron on both. Problem solved.
Don't get me wrong. I love what you do and I enjoy your threads. Criticism is often a good thing but in this instance.... I have to disagree because time has proven the steering system to be amazingly bulletproof.
KK, it seems as though you miss many of the points I was trying to make.
HD,
In my "Private Message" I sent to you, I waz not complaining about anything..I said Quote: That $9600.00 :usa2: dollors waz stupid money for a gas powered 2wd..
If you feel that $9600.00 for a loaded 4223PS GT is "stupid money", then that is something that I view as a complaint. If you were happy with that price, then you would not say that the asking price is stupid. Not all homeowners want or even need diesel engines, 4 wheel drive or all-wheel steering. Many could care less about a cup holder. Whether we are talking about a Colt, Case or Ingersoll tractor, the price has always been high but you have to factor inflation in order to come to that conclusion. A dollar back in 1965 bought you a lot more than a dollar will today. The dollar of today is more like the dime in 1965. Therefore, if you move the decimal point in that price, one position to the left, it becomes $960.00 and that's right in the ballpark of what a nice, new Colt Rancher or Case 180 cost in 1965. It's a good thing that people didn't feel that number to be stupid money back then or both lines of tractors would have been dropped by Case before 1969 rolled around.
My tractor is class of 88, 2498.8 hrs on the clock. Runs like new, and burns no oil, orignal engine parts.
Why would I NOT upgrade my steering? :headscratcher: I have a machine shop,..No special tooling was required for this operation.. Besides that my tractor was pleading for lube.
Are you not considering the fact that the shaft will turn easier riding on a film of molly,..Instead of dry gulling steel? :think:
I have no quarrel with you making these "upgrades". As you say, you have a machine shop and the skills to do so. Bravo. I wish I had the same. But like many members of this forum, I do not. Therefore I view this "upgrade" quite differently. For me the questions are. "Is it really necessary?" and "How much will a machine shop charge me?" and "Will this make a dynamic difference to the steering of my tractor?"
In my opinion, it isn't necessary, it will cost me too much and the cost vs benefits factor cannot be justified. As I said before, this alleged shortfall by the Case engineers has never come up on any forum I have been a member of since 2004. There is no question that you are making an improvement and extending the life of the steering shaft in the process. However, you are on a public forum with over 1600 members. What gets talked about in this thread will end up in the archives of the site. Members that join in the future MAY come across this thread when searching the archives and form the conclusion that this galling is a major problem, when it is not. There are far more compelling issues when it comes to hard steering then the one you are working on and the only way those members will understand that, is if someone on this forum challenges you. That's my job. It's what I did on MTF and on the Yahoo site.
You said I needed to keep in mind that the additional cost of this upgrade waz gona effect the price tag...
Heres your numbers} Oilite bushing from McMaster Carr. pt# 6338k425. 1 of pricing} $1.11 Thats One dollor and eleven pennys...
Ill betcha that you wont find a steel bushing for less...
Ok,. lets say that the steel bushings were free :sidelaugh: .. The total cost of this upgrade would be about a buck..Probably more like 75 cents with a volume discount..
I would make quick work of the extra inventory problem by tossing all the steel bushings in a scrap bucket , and reload that bin with oilite bushing.
You are ignoring the fact that there are machining costs involved, assembly costs involved, inventory costs involved, overhead costs involved, tooling costs and who knows what else. Once these costs are added to the basic cost of the finished product, then the factory owner marks up the price of the tractor and then ships it to the regional distributor who marks it up again before delivering it to the local dealer who marks it up again before selling it to the consumer.
In my original post I stated: Why didnt they use oilite bushings?.. Or a grease fittin? Meaning the should have dun one or the other,..
You miss read me,,,I wasnt complaining...I waz criticizeing the case/ingersoll engineers for running a "dry" joint in {THEE MOST CRITICAL} point of the steering :rockon:
The engineers were pretty good at putting zerks on these tractors where they are truly needed. Obviously they looked at that area and felt one was not needed due to the few turns lock to lock of the steering system. In my opinion, time has proven their decision to be correct due to the lack of complaints about that area of the steering.
Even a dumb ol farm boy like me knows,.. thats a {piss poor excuse} for mechinical engineering..
Iam still bettin ya,, they spent more money screwing up, Using the steel bushing, then they would have spent doing it right with oilite..
Once again, that would be your opinion and you are certainly entitled and welcome to express it on this forum. But as I have already indicated, the absence of complaint about this issue in the 200,000 posts I have read, tells me a different story.
As far as my lift link with the built in shock absorber, Its not for everybody, Only those concerned with keeping the belly cylinder intact and functioning properly.. It only....
takes the shock loads out of the circut to prevent premature joint wear and all the slop that comes with that, resulting in cylinder tear outs, cylinder mount falures, and the ocasional frame tearout.
Ask anyone who really knows these tractors and they will tell you that the damage you speak of is uncommon and when it does happen, the reason is .....someone let an "animal" use the tractor.
Oh yea,.. it also allows you 1.1/2" adjustment in travel parameters so you can dial in you grading capibalites. plus the tierod ends boast a 400% increase in bearing area. Plus if your grand kids get to fellin a little slop in the link they can easly replace the ends from many online web sites.
There is a limited amount of grading that can be done with what is essentially a 2-way blade. You would need a 6-way blade and it would have to be a lot heavier in weight than the OEM one is for it to be useful. A good quality box blade mounted to a 3 point hitch will run circles around this "push blade".
Tom, Iam doing these things to keep my beloved 446 in tip top tight condition, Your protest suprises me but.. Ill gona keep doin my thing..
Sorry,. but thats how we do it here at my shop. UP Grades are what drivs me, Especially when I can save money on maintence,..And enjoy a tite ride along the way
As I said, carry on with whatever you wish to do. That is your right and I don't interfere with individual rights. You brought this forward and now I'm discussing the merits of it in the context of my own personal exposure to these tractors. It's what we do here. We discuss issues.
OH,. that steering shaft you dont approve of has been deamed obsolete, And, Iam pissed because it hasent even been installed yet. Ill post the new version later.
Theres,..One thing that I forgot to tell you,.. I dont belive you when you tell me that theres no room for improvement in the case /inge steering. And,. Iam the only one that thinks so
kubotakid :usa2:
