[Hydriv]

We recently did a Poll called "What's in a name?" and 88% of the responders said that out of the choices given, they would choose CASE. I think that this is very understandable considering the history behind the Case branding. If you have been hanging around the CCI forums for any length of time, then I'm pretty sure that you have run across one or more discussions about the failure of the tractor once the Case name was no longer on it. That is to say...the tractor itself was never a failure but the marketing sure as hell was. So this is another one of those hypothetical questions.

Suppose that you were the person who bought the Outdoor Power Equipment Division from Case and the year is 1983. You have a 4 year deal in place with Case to continue producing tractors for all the Case dealers. During that period, Case will allow you to slowly introduce another brand name and apply it to the tractor but 4 years from now, the Case name is gone for good. They own that brand and since they no longer control the company, you can't use that name. You look into the companies historical records along with the contract you signed with Case and you learn that you also bought all of the rights to the original brand name.... COLT. However, it's been 17 years since a COLT tractor left the factory floor. So.....what do you do?

You have this fantastic and very successful company that produces garden tractors but now you need a new name that will capture the imagination of the public. You have an uphill battle to inform potential buyers in a mere 4 year time frame. Branding any product is a huge undertaking. Your name is Jack Ingersoll. So.... here's your dilemma. What is the best name for your company? You essentially have two FIXED choices and one open-ended choice.

Picking #4 could mean that you give up too easily or you lack imagination. :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: So...... give it some thought before you choose. Lot's of CCI owners have debated this issue since 2005 when Eastman took over Ingersoll. This is your chance to come up with something. :thumbsup:

 

[InTroubleAlltheTime]

Can we make a deal to buy into using another manufacturer's name? Can we use the name of a company that went belly up?
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich

 

[bhildret]

While building a branded line is quite difficult and could consume hoards of cash, the Ingersoll name had immediate panache in equipment like this ... really related by corporate marriage or not. Given the cost effective options at hand, it seemed to be the right move at the time.

It seemed to quickly slip away with Rothenberger at the helm ... and not exactly growing stronger with Eastman ... but not going belly up again either ...



Brian

 

[Hydriv]

Can we make a deal to buy into using another manufacturer's name? Can we use the name of a company that went belly up?
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich

Keep in mind that the year is 1983, not 2012. If the company you are thinking of was a going concern in 1983, then that would be off limits. If it went bankrupt prior to 1983, then you would be faced with securing the rights to the corporate name. That's not always an easy thing to do. The other issue would be the past reputation of that company. Was it good or was it bad? When they went bust, were a lot of equipment owners hurt as a result? You have to really think about what you are taking on in the way of negativity by choosing a well known brand that has had financial difficulties. It is often nearly impossible to shake off the bad Karma.

 

[Rob_P]

I thought I was the only one that thought about this scenario. I've considered it many times. I like the Colt name, but it just doesn't sound very "tough". If I was going to go with the horse theme, I would choose "Stallion" or "Mustang". Of course, nothing beats the simplicity and recognition of the Case name, but "Ace" has a nice ring to it, (although it would probably get associated with the hardware chain, just like Ingersoll gets associated with air tools.) I have also thought of combining some of the letters of Case-Colt-Ingersoll and came up with "Solstice", which seems fitting for a garden tractor that is used in all seasons.

 

[Hydriv]

While building a branded line is quite difficult and could consume hoards of cash, the Ingersoll name had immediate panache in equipment like this ... really related by corporate marriage or not. Given the cost effective options at hand, it seemed to be the right move at the time.

It seemed to quickly slip away with Rothenberger at the helm ... and not exactly growing stronger with Eastman ... but not going belly up again either ...

Brian

Where the current tractor is "going" is an entirely different debate that has been covered many times in the past on several forums.

I don't think that there is any doubt that the name Ingersoll brought a certain amount of brand confusion. We know that to be true, thanks to all the e-Bay, Craigslist, Kijiji, Uncle Henry's and other listings that state the tractor is an "Ingersoll-Rand". It is arguable whether his confusion is helpful or harmful and it is something for the members to consider when thinking about the POLL questions. In the past, many new companies were formed using a rather unusual name and became highly successful. XEROX, Google, Yahoo, Sprint, Juicy, MicroSoft, Apple, Compaq... the list goes on and on. Was it a mistake to choose Ingersoll? Would a different name have done better in the eyes of the consumer?

 

[Snotrocket]

Chucks Tractors has a nice ring to it. :rockon: :rockon:

 

[InTroubleAlltheTime]

:222: Dynamic Power Master Hydraulic Tractors :446:

OK Here is my own brand name, don't bust on me too much. :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :thumbsup:
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich

 

[Alan_H]

TOUGH tractors

Terrain
Owning
Undaunted
Garden
Hydrive

tractors. :rockon: :rockon: :rockon: :rockon: :446: :446: :446:

 

[KBear]

Here's a thought. What if Jack Ingersoll would've approached Caterpillar about building an LGT and branding it CAT. Here he would have the branding he needed. I'm sure CAT would have a heavy hand in the company depending on how the contract agreement was written and I'm sure the politics on the business would have been a lot to take. But wouldn't it be cool to see an LGT with the CAT logo on the side? Jack would have access to a lot of capitol in which to develop additional implements for the tractor and maybe more tractors with FELs. Would the overall design of the tractor change due to this partnership - that would be a good question. Just a thought.

Kenneth

 

[Caseman2]

Can we make a deal to buy into using another manufacturer's name? Can we use the name of a company that went belly up?
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich

I agree with this and what Kbear suggested - that is to first try to stay affiliated with Case - barring that team up with a major full line tractor manufacturer, an easier target would be one that did not make their own lgt.

The problem with going with another name is there would be no association with a full line tractor manufacturer making your new business enterprise unrecognizable to the average Joe. You really wouldn't have to worry about Colt being remembered because they weren't around that long to begin with.

One of the things that could have been done would be to ask Case if they could use the color combo Desert Sunset/Power Red being as they no longer were using it or just stay with the current color Power Red/Power White and deviate as little as possible from that to keep a familiarity and then perhaps the name Colt could be reserected as it starts with the letter"C" and is also 4 letters.

No matter what this would have to be the most difficult thing to overcome with you new business enterprise, once your loyal base found out that you were no longer supported by Case fear would set in.

 

[jayvee43]

IH (International Harvester) produced a range of large gasoline-powered farm tractors under the Mogul and Titan brands. Sold by McCormick dealers, the Type C Mogul was little more than a stationary engine on a tractor chassis, fitted with friction drive (one speed forward, one reverse).[5] Between 1911 and 1914, 862 Moguls were built.[5] These tractors had varied success but the trend going into the mid-1910s was "small" and "cheap".

I would have liked to see a Name like TITAN :crazy:

 

[InTroubleAlltheTime]

Can we make a deal to buy into using another manufacturer's name? Can we use the name of a company that went belly up?
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich

I agree with this and what Kbear suggested - that is to first try to stay affiliated with Case - barring that team up with a major full line tractor manufacturer, an easier target would be one that did not make their own lgt.
The problem with going with another name is there would be no association with a full line tractor manufacturer making your new business enterprise unrecognizable to the average Joe. You really wouldn't have to worry about Colt being remembered because they weren't around that long to begin with.
One of the things that could have been done would be to ask Case if they could use the color combo Desert Sunset/Power Red being as they no longer were using it or just stay with the current color Power Red/Power White and deviate as little as possible from that to keep a familiarity and then perhaps the name Colt could be reserected as it starts with the letter"C" and is also 4 letters.
No matter what this would have to be the most difficult thing to overcome with you new business enterprise, once your loyal base found out that you were no longer supported by Case fear would set in.

My initial thought was to revive a trusted name that had gone belly up, but I ruled it out. The other thought was to approach a manufacturer that builds large tractors and make a deal. They would get a cut and add the GTs and Yard Tractors to their dealerships under their name, but the GTs could also be sold independently (under their name). This would insure a lot of marketing. Despite the fact of Massey branding in the past, I thought Massey Ferguson would be a good choice. I also thought of Ford but then they might be blue! :crying: :crying: :crying: I think Ken's choice of Caterpiller is great because they are associated with tough machines. So anyhow, in the end I thought it would be cool to try to think of a name that represented power and the unique and useful design of the tractor, all hydraulic.
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich

 

[jayvee43]

Some of the trade names for hydraulic fluids include Arnica, Tellus, Durad, Fyrquel, Houghto-Safe, Hydraunycoil, Lubritherm Enviro-Safe, Pydraul, Quintolubric, Reofos, Reolube,Valvoline Ultramax and Skydrol.

I could do this all day long, but how do you guys feel about Titan Valvoline?

or

The Valvolines? (new line of tractors)

 

[Nutcase446]

I don't think that there is anything wrong with Ingersoll. It should have opened up a whole group of potential new dealers. When Case had them they were marketed to Case dealers first. If a Case ag or industrial dealer took them on, Case stuck with them whether they put any effort into selling them or not. In areas where big ag was booming or construction was booming I can tell you that GTs didn't get much attention. Case would almost never cancel a dealers OPE contract to set up someone else in town.

In a case where the local AG dealer absolutly did not want OPE (believe me they pressured you to take it) a L & G dealer was set up. One problem was that with the Case name you were never going to sign up a dealer with another tractor line. No Oliver dealer was going to promote the Case name for instance. When Ingersoll took over, dealers that were doing well kept the line and the Case associaton was still there. The dealers that took it because of the pressure from Case and only sold one when someone stumbled in the door with a hand full of cash quickly let the line go. If they had marketed better, expanded (who heard of Husqvarna in 1985) and modernized the line (the same headlights for 40 years?) I believe that they were actually in a position to upgrade their dealer network.

Association with a big name doesn't guarantee success. Kbears Cat suggestion is a perfect example. Cat sold their Challanger line of rubber tracked tractors to Agco (Massey) about 10 years ago. Don't ask me to explain the whole deal but part of it was that Cat was going to market the full line of Massey tractors painted Cat yellow. I could never understand why they labeled them Challenger and not Caterpillar but I'm sure their marketing people are smarter than me.

To say the least it was a complete disaster and they have now parted ways. I had a Cat salesman tell me that he didn't have time to screw around with a $15,000 compact tractor.
There are a lot of names that were unknown in 1985 that have done very well. Walker Mowers, Hustler, Exmark, Landpride (I had to throw that in) and Scag are a few that come to mind. The dealers that I go to have showrooms full of this stuff.

Sorry for rambling.

 

[bobneumann]

Instead of the current branding confusion with Ingersoll Rand, how about if they go ahead and change the tractor name to Eastman.

That way everyone will think it's built by Kodak.

How "Picture Perfect" would that be?
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

In all sincerity, a name brand that's already assiociated with dependability/reliability in outdoor power equipment. Husqvarna's already taken. But what about Stihl?

And aren't Stihl products painted something that resembles power white on power red?????

Hmm... :wtf:

 

[Hydriv]

When one of the automobile companies decides to build a brand new model, they hire a company that specializes in researching names. Today, they don't limit their investigation just to North America. They go world-wide to see if the name has ever been used anywhere else because they don't want to get into a copy-write infringement battle nor do they want to take on a name that already has a bad image elsewhere. They also research the language used in a huge number of countries to see how that name translates in the standard dictionaries of those languages but also in the slang dictionaries. As an example, I give you this link.

http://www.billcasselman.com/unpublishe ... _names.htm

The name chosen needs to be simple and easily spoken by everyone. It can't be more than one word nor more than three syllables. Ford, Buick, Chevrolet, Durant, Rolls-Royce, Dodge, Edsel, Chrysler and Duesenberg are all names that belonged to the owners of those companies. Pontiac, DeSoto, Cadillac, LaFayette and Mercury are names taken from historical or mythical figures. Saturn is a car but it's also a planet. What does the planet Mars have to do with candy? Do you think that you would get away with calling your tractor Coca-Cola or Pepsi or Rolls-Royce? Their lawyers would be on you like white on rice. I never said this would be easy and I truly appreciate the feedback so far. But you have to put yourself into the shoes of Jack Ingersoll. I'd be willing to bet that he went to his relatives at Ingersoll-Rand and got legal clearance just to use his own last name. After all, do you think that Cadillac would say nothing if that name was chosen for the tractor? And do you think that a court of law would rule in the tractor owners favour just because his last name was also Cadillac? Not a chance. Now, if you chose a well-known brand name for your tractor but that company had absolutely nothing to do with the transportation side of the universe, then you might get away with it.

The name Kellogg is instantly associated with the cereal company and there is also an air compressor company that uses that name. But once again, brand confusion might be the result and brand ridicule is also a possibility. As the world continues to grow into a global marketplace, the issue of name choice becomes more and more difficult. Fortunately for you guys, things back in 1983 weren't quite so bad on this issue so try to think in the terms of that era.

 

[ByCo]

I don't think it matters all that much what they call the company. It's only a name, it's what you do with the name that matters.

ByCo

 

[Nutcase446]

About a year ago Stihl signed a agreement with Deere. Every JD dealer has the oppertunity to sell Stihl even if there is a dealer next door. I'm sure that Stihl would not want risk that to sell Ingersolls.

 

[Hydriv]

I wish that you guys would stop looking at this issue as it being a 2012 concern. Stihl had no agreement with Deere in 1983. However, Stihl did not buy the company from Case, did they? Jack Ingersoll bought it and had to come up with a suitable name for it because he did not buy the rights to the Case name with the deal.


I agree that Stihl would have been an excellent branding choice had Jack decided to partner with them on this venture. They had the dealer network plus they had a highly respected name in the outdoor power products industry. Whether Jack ever considered partnering with someone such as Stihl is anybody's guess. Since we don't know, the question remains the same. If you don't like Colt or Ingersoll as a name, then what is a suitable name?