[chllngr528]

Tom,
The red demon lives no more (my 224). She had a fatal accident with that big snowstorm that came through a few weeks back. I was out snowblowing with it and the motor let go. Big time.

I've been been working on tractors, cars, heavy equipment since I was 10 and I have never seen carnage like what came out of my engine.(ok so maybe I have but not lately) I removed the connecting rod in 7 or 8 large pieces and many smaller ones. The lower rod end actually broke apart in 4 seperate pieces. Along with the rod the crankshaft and cam gear biffed it to. I don't really know why the engine came apart as it did even though I put it through some abuse this past summer. I have seen tractors there put through the same abuse and run for years with no trouble. I am wondering if maybe the rod had a defect or somthing in it. I was running the correct engine oil for winter and let it warm up for around 20-30 mins before I used it.(kinda on accident as I got caught up doing something else) It was also in a heated garage before I started it. AND before you or anyone else even asks it was only running 3600 rpms. I have never set it above that so rpms weren't the culprit either. Anyways I got a 16 hp kohler from my father in-law I was thinking about rebuilding to put in but I don't know yet.

Now my questions for the forum. I havn't started to research this yet and I maybe wrong but I am under the assumption that kohler engines such as the k321 were mostly the same in different tractors except for the cranks which were spec'ed out for the different manufactures drivetrains. Now if I am correct, what other manufactures cranks, such as john deere, wheel horse, etc would work for my application. This is also the deciding factor for whether or not I rebuild my 14 or this 16 because if the cranks are all the same I will rebuild the 16 and drop her in.

 

[chllngr528]

I was little vague on the info about my tractor. Its a 224 with a k321. I use it for mowing, snowblowing, GT pulls, and rite now as a large paper weight :grin:

 

[Hydriv]

Sorry to hear about your engine failure. I would agree that it's rare for that much damage to occur.

As for root cause, I doubt that you will ever figure out what let go first but one thing you might look for is a broken balance gear. If that happens, the chunks drop into the pan and that's like pulling the pin on a grenade.

While it is true that K-321's were commonly used in many brands, the Case spec calls for a shoulder in the casting to support and center the pump mount along with four tapped holes for the mount's retaining bolts. Creating the short output shaft needed for a Case isn't a big deal and if the shaft is a larger diameter, a new coupler half can solve that problem.

Other issues revolve around whether your tractor uses a start/gen or an alternator/starter. Craigslist postings near you are probably your best source for a suitable engine. I've never tried to put a K-341 into a Case. Aside from the above mentioned issues, overall height may be an issue. Keep in mind also that the Case oil pan is unique to this brand. I believe that there are some issues to deal with when transferring a 321 pan to the 341.

Hopefully, KenC will drop by and see this thread. He's more experienced on these issues than I am and that's why I invited him to be one of the keystone members here.

 

[chllngr528]

Like I said I didn't really start researching the 16 hp too much. It was just a thought. Do you remember me from the other forum? I think you were the one who helped me out with my tractor when I was getting my a$$ kicked at the tractor pulls, but I could be mistaking.

 

[Hydriv]

Yes, I remember you from MTF.

That was the thread that Kevin Bowley stuck his beak into advising you to adjust your relief valve without benefit of having a gauge. :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh:

 

[chllngr528]

Alright, for now I am going to rebuild the k321. I got a crank, a cam and the rest of the parts to rebuild the demon. The crank came from a cub engine. So I'm going to have to make some modifications.

 

[Hydriv]

Did you dismantle the old engine? Did it have the three balance gears in it? Were they all intact?

You might want to spend some time on Brian Miller's website reading and also go get the Kohler K engine service manual from Kohler.com and study that too. Take your time and build the engine carefully, leaving nothing to chance or history may repeat itself

 

[Billygoat]

chllngr528- How did you make out with the Cub Cadet crankshaft. I'm in a similar situation and may be able to get a crankshaft from a cub cadet for mine. What mods were needed? Thanks in advance.

 

[chllngr528]

Billy, I just finally got around to repairing the case engine. I believe the only thing I have to do is shorten the end of the crank. I will let you know how it works out but I am not expecting any problems.

 

[Billygoat]

Thanks, I had mine ground. Only had to go .010 under. I wasn't sure if it would have to be replaced or not. Cadet cranks seem to be more plentiful than Case spec'e cranks.I found a crankshaft reference guide. Sent a copy to Tom to get put into Tech Section. He'll get it there when his busy schedule allows. They have done an incredible job on the Tech Section so far. It's kinda staggering to think what it will end up being.

 

[chllngr528]

what did they charge you to cut your crank?

 

[Billygoat]

$35. A local Napa does small engines, and this particular shop has a good rep. He does a lot of racing cart engines.

 

[chllngr528]

Ok maybe I am a cheap SOB but I called a local machine shop here by me in Mass (also the only one it that will machine small engines) to have my block punched/crank ground and they told me $190!!! At the machine shop I use to use they charged me $40 the cut a crank and $40 to punch the block. The guy who use to run that machine shop has since retired and sold his equipment hence the reason I am not going to him.

This has been a bad week. First I find my dream tractor then I find out a engine rebuild kit for it is $1200. Now I am almost done with the Demon (224) and some guy wants to charge me a arm and a leg for an hour or 2 of work.

What do you guys pay for your small engine machine work?

 

[Billygoat]

I was mistaken, it $45 for the crank. Also its a single cyl. Kohler, so only one crankpin.

 

[Rockdog]

Unfortunately the machinist probably cost the shop $50 and hour (and may take a while to do it if he isnt familiar with that particular job) and with shop and equipment overhead it adds up quick. Big difference from a guy who has owned his own equipment and can do it for $40. It sucks cause all the things we used to do ourselves cause it was so cheap is now expensive cause of high "costs" involved with skilled labor (there isnt a whole lot ot chose from anymore).

 

[chllngr528]

Well ladies and gents today I learned a lesson in attention to detail. I finally had a few free mins and decided to put the engine back together. I spent 2 hours disassembling and cleaning the block and small parts. I grabbed the crank I had got from my father in-law and no sooner had I picked up I realized that the flywheel side on a cub engine uses a bolt unlike the case spec cranks which uses a bolt. I should've realized this when I first looked at the crank but oh well. I'm off to the machine shop tomorrow. (maybe)

 

[chllngr528]

Napa in Millerton NY will grind cranks for $50 and punch blocks for $35, now that's what I'm talking about. :thumbup:

 

[Hydriv]

I like to see that sort of information show up on this site so that other members have a bit of a benchmark for comparison to local prices. :thumbsup:

 

[chllngr528]

Thats why I asked before how much others were paying. I don't care what people say, paying $190 (which was the average cost everywhere else I went) to have a single cylinder engine bored/crank ground is absurd!

 

[mikebramel]

Sounds like you have a lot of "overhead" in your area

$50 for the crank and $50 for the bore/hone here