Torque values & belt question

3740 Views 15 Replies 7 Participants Last post by Mr onetwo, Jun 5, 2011

Mr onetwo

Discussion Starter · Jun 3, 2011

I am putting my F46 deck back together so I can mow this weekend.My question is, what are the torque specs for tightening the 3/4" nuts on the spindles?I am not painting or restoring this deck until this winter...just replaced all 6 bearings,wiped everything down,changed all lock washers and bought new belts(Gates aramid green 4 digit belts).I can't believe how EZ this went.Cast iron housings,spindles,ect. all were in great condition...just a light pull on the sheaves and it all came apart. My other question is about the belt issue. I think the original pulleys were made by Browning....have dealt with old Browning stuff in HVAC equipment for many years and thats what these look like. They are without a doubt A size sheaves.The belt guides all list A or 4L belts and Gates crossover from Case to Gates does also. Where does the 9/16 wide Case belt "myth" come from....I find no 9/16 v belt ever being made by anyone, only A- 1/2" and B- 5/8" Please enlighten me and everyone else . :mrgreen:

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Bart

· #2 · Jun 3, 2011

I don't think there is a torque spec for the spindles--just tighten them so they don't have any play.

The Ingersoll OEM belts are 9/16" and I have never heard of any other source for that size. Kevlar power rated belts in 1/2" and 5/8" will work but may need to be a slightly different length since they will sit higher or lower in the groove. Personally, I have had excellent experience with the OEM belts and don't feel there is a meaningful savings by using an after market belt. I don't recall wearing out a single OEM belt but I've replaced a lot of after market belts on equipment I've purchased. The only time I've replaced an OEM belt is when it popped off the deck pulley and got sliced by the blades but that was my fault for not checking the level of the deck. Since leveling the deck a couple of years ago it has been trouble free.

Hydriv

· #3 · Jun 3, 2011

The nuts used for the spindles are a type of lock-nut. As long as the locking aspect is still working, then you should not experience the nuts coming loose. As Bart stated, there is no torque value posted that I'm aware of either. What matters most is that the nut is really tightened down firmly. You want the blade, spindle, inner bearing races, spacer, washers, pulley and nut to rotate as a single unit with no part every slipping. That's what protects the spindles from damage and allows you to install new bearings 500 hours from now and not find grooves on the spindle shafts.

Try purchasing an OEM Ingersoll belt and measuring it for yourself. You are right in that the belt industry is founded on 1/8" increments, not 1/16" but Case had the clout to stipulate what they wanted from suppliers. I can't begin to tell you how many owners have reported that they tried cheaper belts and found that they did not last. They went with OEM and put their troubles behind them. That is not to say there is anything all that wrong with TSC's Blue Line belts. Owners have reported good results with those but as Bart said, you have to watch the lengths due to the difference in width.

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Stewart

· #4 · Jun 3, 2011

OEM

I bought my 224-79 in 1981 and it came with a spare set of belts which I still have. :thumbsup:

The mower belt hasn't seen much use as I quit mowing with the Case in 1985 and both belts appear to be usable. I found the deck the other day in the bushes but haven't pulled it out yet. :thumbsup:

The two belts for the snowblower which were used every year untill about 10 years ago, they both started slipping :headscratcher: I went through quit a few aftermarket belts untill I found the proper belt. And now that I have New OEM motor mounts I suspect the old belts won't slip anymore. :thumbsup:

So that gives me 5 years on my mower belt and likely 20 years on the snowcaster belt.

When you put the wider belt on does the implement speed pick up any noticeble amount?

Bart

· #5 · Jun 3, 2011

Stewart said:
When you put the wider belt on does the implement speed pick up any noticeble amount?

A wider belt will travel higher in the groove increasing the effective diameter but the PTO pulley and deck pulleys are pretty close in size so the speed shouldn't change much. If the driven pulley is smaller than the drive pulley then there could be some speed change.

Mr onetwo

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jun 3, 2011

You guys missed my point......the OEM pulleys from 1969 are not 9/16, they are 1/2" A series standard pulleys. The case specs state 1/2" belts...why would they have 9/16" belts with 1/2" pulleys? :think:

99flhr

· #7 · Jun 4, 2011

Mr onetwo said:
Where does the 9/16 wide Case belt "myth" come from....I find no 9/16 v belt ever being made by anyone,

Perhaps I missed the point, I perceived this as a question asked, and then several members responded directly to that question

Bart

· #8 · Jun 4, 2011

Mr onetwo said:
You guys missed my point......the OEM pulleys from 1969 are not 9/16, they are 1/2" A series standard pulleys. The case specs state 1/2" belts...why would they have 9/16" belts with 1/2" pulleys? :think:

I don't know if they used something smaller in 1969 but all the 200/400 models and beyond use the 9/16" belts. It's easy to see the difference if you look at a new OEM belt and a new 1/2" belt side by side.

Mr onetwo

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jun 4, 2011

I will use the Gates "green" belts this summer and will let you all know how they work out.....I will take a picture of them before I install them tomorrow and after the last mow of the year I will take a picture of their condition along with hours run. I got the belt specs from Case's own literature(Belt Guide 9-51590)...no mention of 9/16", just 1/2";A or 4L. When I do a total restore/repaint on this deck this winter I will get a Case belt to see how it fits on the pulleys. Bart...how do the OEM belts sit in the grooves of your tractor....are they flush or do they sit down in the groove?

Bart

· #10 · Jun 4, 2011

That's interesting, I hadn't seen that manual previously but I don't really have an explanation. It's possible that Case provided that information for people needing the closest after market belts though they generally like to promote only their own products.

The OEM belts sit flush in the PTO pulley whereas the 1/2" ones I've tried sit lower in the groove.

I doubt that you will have a problem with the belt you describe but the only way to know for sure whether it will outlive an OEM belt is to do a side by side test that could take a very long time. There are many owners who get 10-15 years or more out of an OEM belt so the prorated cost is pretty negligible.

Mr onetwo

Discussion Starter · #11 · Jun 4, 2011

I got the Gates belts because I need to mow this weekend...otherwise I would have gone with Case.I will have the deck back together in a couple hours and will post a couple of pics showing how things look.As you can tell...since I have time to think about these questions.....I have too much time on my hands :think: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh:

Hydriv

· #12 · Jun 4, 2011

No.... I don't think so. Your questions are quite valid and I agree with you on the pulley thing. Why would Case have special pulleys made to accommodate a 9/16" belt? Doesn't make much sense. And if they went with 1/2" pulleys, then why spec a 9/16" belt from their supplier? Just another one of those weird mysteries about this breed of tractor. :thumbsup:

Mr onetwo

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jun 4, 2011

I think I have figured some of this out. I have a pc. of the old case drive belt from another tractor....it does not fit the mower deck pulleys. An "A" belt is 1/2" across at it widest and 5/16" thick. The Case belt is a hair over 1/2" wide ,but it is 7/16" thick.That difference changes the profile of the belt and gives it a much greater gripping area on the pulley. The deck drive pulley and the PTO pulley are much wider and deeper to take advantage of this superior belt design.In the Case guide I referenced before, the drive belt is called out as a "4V"( must be Case's designation) ,while the deck belt is called out as an "A". Maybe someone could look at their newer deck and see if the deck pulleys are in fact different from the drive side stuff.....or maybe I'm just crazy :roll: :crazy:

I know ,I know...way too long :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh:

Snotrocket

· #14 · Jun 4, 2011

I don't think it matters that much if you're just mowing your lawn. The mower deck doesn't put nearly the amount of strain on a belt as the snowcaster does in my opinion.

I bought a kevlar belt from Lowes and it's got about 50 hours on it and it still looks like new.

I've got to get up to your place some weekend Mronetwo and check out your stuff!! You're only about a 45 minute ride from me.

Nutcase446

· #15 · Jun 4, 2011

When did they switch to 9/16" belts? In the 70s they came with 1/2" (A) belts. Did they change the PNs to reflect the change?

Mr onetwo

Discussion Starter · #16 · Jun 5, 2011

Hey Snot.....come on up anytime. Hey Gregg...how are yah. I have come up with some more info.....in the guide, the implement side of things is most generally an "A" belt in the specs...that is what is on my F46 deck. On the drive side of things a 4V belt is specified .The drive pulley and the early style PTO pulley on both my 444's are actually a "B" style 5/8" groove pulley.....that is why people have trouble with belts they get at home centers.An A belt will not last long in a B pulley. It turns out there is another class of v-belt known as a "Wedge" belt.This profile is better at heavy duty intermitent, shock type loads.They come in 3V,5V and 8V sizes standard.I think that there is no doubt that Case had the maker of their belts produce a "4V" HD belt for their proprietary use. I am going to use Gates green belts on the mower and only Case 4V belts for the PTO. The pc. of old Case belt I have has a groove on the outside just like a Browning 5V belt. I have a couple of pics to illustrate.I hope this is useful to everyone! :usa:

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