[vfrman91]

I am working on adding fenders, seat support, and seat pan to my beat-up Case 648 loader. This group has been fantastic in helping to understand what I bought, what is needed, and where to get it. Thank you all...

The previous question posted was for help in determining paint color - consensus was either power tan or power yellow. When I get a day off work I will be going to the closest Case/IH dealer to pick up a quart of whichever matches the underside of my seat pan.

Searching this site today and the FAQ I did not find any specific painting tips. I have a basic HVLP sprayer I used with Rustoleum to paint a tractor cart with last year. Basic oil based paint, was not a bad job - durable and looks OK. For the Case 648 though I am interested in obtaining a durable paint job that will look nice and last. With that in mind I am wondering if anyone can direct me to some websites or references for backyard painters regarding prep, painting tips, etc?

Also, I was initially intending to use the Valspar catalyst with the Case paint to increase the durability but reading up on the isocyanate hazards I have second thoughts. Is the Case acrylic enamel durable enough without the catalyst?

Thanks!

 

[mikebramel]

If you want durable blast the metal with coal slag or sand or sand with 80 grit on a dual action sander. Epoxy prime 3-4 heavy coats.

Yes, you will need to use the hardener to make it worth your while

 

[Hydriv]

In my opinion, there is no choice of colour here because 648's were all made after 1976 and Power Tan was the paint colour used in the Construction Division of Case at that time. I would suggest that you purchase Case IronGuard Power Tan and definitely use it with a hardener. If you are unsure about your painting skills, then you could do all of the prep work and bring it to the stage just prior to shooting the colour. Find a local body shop with a spray booth and let them apply the final paint. They have top notch equipment along with proper respirators. Spraying a complete tractor is not a small task and having adequate space to lay out all the pieces so they can be sprayed from a single mixing of paint is important when you want everything to match.

 

[CASE 220/4]

I agree with the above statement. The best painter in the world isnt going to do a good job if he is painting outside or in a dusty garage. Plus the dangers of inhaling the paint products is really bad and a $2.00 dust mask doesnt cut it. I paint almost everyday and I use a $100 respirator. I painted my entire 220 last year in a paint booth and it came out very well. I used Case Power Red paint that I bought from Messicks. I used Crossfire reducer and hardener from Napa. I put on a light coat at first and let it tack up and then 2 heavy coats.

Temp and humidity play a HUGE part in how well your paint job turns out so make sure you dont paint in low temps or high humidity.

 

[Snotrocket]

While I completely agree with Hydriv and Brad, if you're going to work the tractor I would probably save my pennies and paint it myself.

It's just going to hurt that much more when you put a scratch/scuff in it knowing you shelled out a bunch of money to have someone do it for you.


If you already have a paint gun, and use a good reducer, hardener and put a good amount of time into prep work you should have a very good paint job that will last for many years.

Spend the majority of your time on the hood. If that turns out good it will make the rest of it that much better.

 

[InTroubleAlltheTime]

VFR: If you do it yourself here is some stuff I learned. I painted my 446 a while back which came out pretty good. I am no expert but what I did was purchased a couple of books on auto body work and also got help on forums (before this one existed). I too had many questions but did not find a lot on the web. You may be able to find some books at the local library. I think the prep is as important as the painting. I bring it down to bare metal for the prep. If you have pitting it must be filled with a high quality filler. I used Bondo professional but I think you may get recommendations for even better stuff. After cutting down and then sanding down the filler, I started with the primer using the Case brand. Spray, wet sand, spray wet sand, I think three coats. I used 3M wet/dry sand paper (bought at auto body supply) with a sanding file and went up from 300 to 1000 or more grit. Then the top coats. Sprayed and wet sanded between, finer and finer. I used Case reducer and hardener (Valspar). For the top coats I mixed the Case thinner and hardener at 8:1:1 ratio. Slowly mixed in, this is important. I bought mixing cups at West Marine and did an oz of each first shot then 1/2 next tow-8 oz -1oz-1oz, etc. I sprayed a light coat first and let it set up. The second coat I layed it on. The third coat I just kind of went over things. I would only do it under proper temperature and low humidity. Hope this helps.
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich
PS Let it gas off for a couple of weeks before you put any decals on.

 

[Mr onetwo]

My 1983 648 is most definitely not Power Tan. All unexposed areas are Power Yellow- PN# B17665N in the spray can.It is a perfect match.

 

[markgru02919]

Plus the dangers of inhaling the paint products is really bad and a $2.00 dust mask doesnt cut it. I paint almost everyday and I use a $100 respirator.

As a FYI: I wish I new about these dangers when I was younger and dumb. After high school before going to college I took a job on a used car lot / custom cycle shop. (Easy rider days, I wanted to tour the country on a chopper) We painted many cars and cycles with no respirators. The owner was a cheap SOB. Instead of having or buying 400 grit sandpaper, he would have us use worn out 220. When it came time to paint he told me to coat the inside of my nose with Vaseline (he did it also), the hairs all over your body and nose would be stuck together when painting, for days later we would spit paint color out. I was only there 2 years, we painted maybe one car a month, 1 -2 cycles during spring time a month. The owner died of lung and liver cancer at 45. I am worried about what affects this is going to have on me later in life. The other thing to watch out for if painting in a garage is a heater. The garage we painted in had an oil fired hot air furnace in it. The furnace kicked on about 2/3 of the way through painting a car and we had a flash go right through the garage, no one was hurt but we had singed hair and red skin on exposed areas. The air becomes saturated with extremely volatile chemicals when painting. If you are not equipped to do it your self HAVE IT DONE, it is not as rewarding as doing it yourself but it is not worth the risk to your health and the health of others around you.

 

[vfrman91]

I really do appreciate all of the different replies. I have dreams of dissassembly and repainting the whole tractor at some point, but with two young children I am just happy my wife lets me entertain myself by working on this awesome machine.

I drove around to two different Case dealers yesterday before I found the paint- WOW $47 a quart for power yellow (which is the closest match to what is on the tractor). You gotta love living in NJ - had I known I could have ordered from Messicks in PA and had it mailed to my house for less. Wife found out when she came home and smelled the paint (from testing the color on the weight box) and complained - "you spent how much for paint for that piece of crap?"

Luckily the dealer did not have the Case primer - or else he could have robbed me for another $47! Will get that from Messicks. I did note that Power Tan ( which is the correct color according to Tom and the Case dealer who has been working around these machines since the 70s) is $17 at Messicks and Power Yellow is $37. So if I decide to paint more than the weight box, fenders, fender support and seat pan I might just go back to the Power Tan to be correct and save some $.

Would love to get a professional paint job as some of you suggested but it is just not something I could afford or justify. My wife has a keen eye on this money pit right now and it needs to be a working machine first and then when time permits I would love to do a full restoration.

So I guess the best approach according to replies is to get some epoxy primer, sand and prep the metal, sand smooth and then final paint with hardener. I will purchase a full face respirator to ease my fears of the hardener and I guess for winter just keep it primer? I cant paint in the garage because it is full of kids toys (not mine!) and winter is too cold for proper drying outside.

Did I miss anything?

 

[Hydriv]

Those who have "read me" on forums for any length of time, know that I always strive to put out the most accurate information possible in threads..........even if that means contradicting or correcting myself at some point. One of the biggest problems I find with the 600 Series in particular is the lack of available sales literature that shows up on e-Bay. One of the other problems is with the literature itself because, unlike car and truck brochures, Case rarely made any reference to the actual YEAR that the brochure represented. You are left to rely on the coded brochure number on the back in fine print and hope that you got it right. To further complicate matters, other collectors agree with me that Case and Ingersoll did not publish a brand new sales brochure for each and every year. What does this have to do with the subject at hand, you ask?

Well, if Case HAD put out a brochure each year and if those brochures stated "Introducing the 1982 Compact Loader Models" and if those brochures showed up for sale on e-Bay all the time, then it would be a much simpler task of figuring out which years were painted Federal Yellow or Power Yellow or Power Tan. And let's face it. Anyone connected with construction equipment knows full well that machinery gets repainted on a regular basis and you cannot always rely on the person doing the repainting to select the OEM colour. I've known some who paint everything CAT Yellow and then turn around and ask "What does it matter? It's YELLOW and pretty and that's what sells."

I tell you this because part of any restoration process is to get to the truth about how the machine was originally put together and that includes determining the original paint colour/s. Upon dismantling the entire machine, you will find that truth buried in areas that have not seen the light of day since the tractor was bolted together. Let that be your guide and not what I tell you or others tell you. If that journey proves that Power Yellow is correct and Power Tan is not..... then so be it. Choose Power Yellow and do the job with accuracy and confidence.

 

[vfrman91]

Decided to go with epoxy primer after the suggestions in prior posts. Now I need to find some locally that is not terribly expensive. Can someone who painted their 600 series tractor comment on the amount of primer and paint I will need for this project? Is two quarts of primer enough or should I get the 1.5 gallon kit?

Thanks in advance.

 

[InTroubleAlltheTime]

VF: If you don't mind me asking on your post. Can someone provide more info on the epoxy primer? Assuming you add catalyst. Is this used with the spray gun? Cleanup an issue with the spray gun?
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich

 

[ing3018]

VF: If you don't mind me asking on your post. Can someone provide more info on the epoxy primer? Assuming you add catalyst. Is this used with the spray gun? Cleanup an issue with the spray gun?
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich

I have used various types of epoxies on wooden boats and so I bought epoxy primer at my local boating supply place. You can also get it at automotive paint suppliers and some NAPAs. If you've not worked with epoxies paints/primers before, be aware that the stuff can be nasty to your health. A respirator with a VOC filter or better yet a supplied air mask are required, even when mixing. Skin and eye protection is also needed. Epoxies cure by a chemical reaction caused by mixing two components together, versus enamels or laquers which cure by drying. You might consider visiting one of the car restoration / body work forums and review those discussions for the precautions needed. You can spray it or roll, or even brush the material on. Acetone can be used to clean up uncured epoxy, though there are likely other products that would work. Reducers can be used to help it flow out better.

On the plus side, since the two parts don't cure until they are mixed, the shelf life of a previously opened can is really long. I just finally used up some general purpose epoxy (West System) that I've had for 15 years and been using a little bit here and there over all that time. Most epoxies are not tolerant of long term exposure to UV light and will yellow. As good as epoxy primer is, you have to cover it with some other paint to protect it from the sun.

 

[InTroubleAlltheTime]

Thanks for the reply and also the safety recommendations ing3018. :thumbsup: I used to do a lot of fiberglass work on my wooden clam and fishing boats years ago. It was nasty work. I also used small amounts of epoxy for small repairs. This was rough finishing. The fiberglass was to seal leaking and also to protect the hull when breaking through ice in the winter.
I have also had times when the cure went quicker then planned with these resins so I was just thinking how the epoxy could be a problem in a spray gun system for that reason. I'll have to research it more. It must really make a solid primer. Perhaps the mini rollers may be good for this stuff.
:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich

 

[jbadman]

This thread helped a lot.... Bought Valspar closeout paint from TSC and using white for wheels and a dozer blade.

Called Valspar, they said if the paint is not designated "Restoration Series" do not use reducer/hardner. The regular paint TSC sold with the green Tractor and Implement label only requires use of naptha VM&P at 2oz/qt.

I tried that and wow, what a nice job...it was easy.... using the $14 special HVLP gun (purple) from Harbor Fgt, the paint flowed on and left a nice gloss.... Sprayed 3 coats. I used two regulator in series and a filter / drier. The tank reg set at 80 and and inline one set at 40. Gun adjusted for 3/4 fluid flow and a fan spray about 4 - 5 inches.

Looking forward to the Case paint application. Rich, you said you used the 8-1-1 mix....I bought some NAPA crossfire products and will try your method on the frame first.

Good thread to follow.

 

[InTroubleAlltheTime]

Jeff: Looking forward to the thread. :thumbsup:

:222: :446: Best Regards, Rich

 

[tchyted]

if there are demands that the tractor be functional then my suggestion is to paint by attrition, with spray cans if needed. this means, say you do something to the fender of the tractor. take the fender off and just paint the fender. just the fender. do the best job you can on it. put it back on the tractor until you have to fix something else. if you are using your tractor, you WILL have to fix something else. when you fix something else, paint that. eventually you will have an ugly tractor, but it won't be rusty, cuz you've been painting every part that touches a tool. rust is where you will spend the most time and effort on prep work. if the tractor is rust-free, then prep work is dramaticly simplified. then, when the demand for a functioning tractor diminishes then consider a complete tear-down. by practicing on small pieces one at a time, you will develope the expertise needed to do the Big Paint job, or the realization that maybe that would indeed be better left done by a pro and let him worry about the health effects.

the reason i suggest this, is that as soon as you take the tractor out to do real work with it, something is going to rub up against it and scratch the crap out of your paint job and you will be needing to paint the whole tractor again to make it look "collector's piece." in my outspoken opinion, a tractor that doesn't have a few flaws here and there is like a cowboy that's all hat and no cattle. people expect a little oil, a scratch or two, some dirt, etc. from a tractor.

 

[Mjoe7]

if there are demands that the tractor be functional then my suggestion is to paint by attrition, with spray cans if needed. this means, say you do something to the fender of the tractor. take the fender off and just paint the fender. just the fender. do the best job you can on it. put it back on the tractor until you have to fix something else. if you are using your tractor, you WILL have to fix something else. when you fix something else, paint that. eventually you will have an ugly tractor, but it won't be rusty, cuz you've been painting every part that touches a tool. rust is where you will spend the most time and effort on prep work. if the tractor is rust-free, then prep work is dramaticly simplified. then, when the demand for a functioning tractor diminishes then consider a complete tear-down. by practicing on small pieces one at a time, you will develope the expertise needed to do the Big Paint job, or the realization that maybe that would indeed be better left done by a pro and let him worry about the health effects.

the reason i suggest this, is that as soon as you take the tractor out to do real work with it, something is going to rub up against it and scratch the crap out of your paint job and you will be needing to paint the whole tractor again to make it look "collector's piece." in my outspoken opinion, a tractor that doesn't have a few flaws here and there is like a cowboy that's all hat and no cattle. people expect a little oil, a scratch or two, some dirt, etc. from a tractor.

I think most understand your point and it's well taken and I agree with most of it. However painting piece by piece as you stated will make for a subpar paint job at best. The reason is if you use a different paint can or mix up several different batch's of paint at different times there is an inconsistency of color or shade that usually takes place. Even the primer used under the paint makes a difference. It's always recommended to paint everything all at the same time with the same batch of paint to keep an even and consistant color pattern.

It just depends on your purpose of painting I guess and the end result your looking for.
Some paint just to keep rust at bay. yet others paint for that reason and for it to look nice, and then some even do all the above but want it to be a strong dependable paint, and still others want a show stopper and then they go all out with expensive high quality paints and near perfect prep. work.

:letitsnow:

 

[Stewart]

:goodpost: M7 :trink: