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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
but we will be back up at the same time Wednesday night.

There is a global announcement at the top of every forum to explain why.


If you read the article, I hope you "get it".

But if you somehow think that this does not matter to you, then think again.

IF this twisted, ill-founded piece of crap manages to be made into law, then kiss this forum goodbye forever. Under the legislation, all it would take is one disgruntled member to notify the authorities that we were dispensing copywrited material. The authorities would then order all the search engines to delete our URL from their systems. Our internet service provider would be ordered to stop giving us a hosting services. No hearing, no day in court, no appeal process, no nothing.

Such a law smacks of the sort of dictatorship that caused the early settlers to brave the ocean journey to reach a land where they could be FREE. Do we need laws in this country? Of course we do. But those laws must presume innocence first. What's next? Will authorities just come and break down your door at 3 AM and cart you, along with your computer, off to some jail because someone said you were logging onto this forum? Your congress is out of control and it is up for sale. The whole system needs a thorough overhaul. The paid lobbyists with all there "greasy money" need to be outlawed and swept out of Washington for good. Political corruption now appears to be rampant and Congress is no longer working for the people who elected them and are paying their high salaries with taxpayer dollars.

YES, I KNOW.... This site bans the discussion of politics. But this is no ordinary law and if passed, it is a direct attack on this forum and every other forum that tries to help people restore and maintain their tractors.

Enough is enough.

Tom
 

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I have to admit I know almost nothing about this law or potential law. I heard Wikipedia is protesting it by shutting down the English version for a day as a peaceful protest. That got my attention. I just went on their site and tried to read up on it. It doesn't sound good and certainly could be used wrong..

I agree there need to be laws to protect legal copyrights and trademarks but this seems to go overboard.

So many people in US don't care or are to busy trying to survive. Hopefully this site and others protesting wakes some of us up!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I was Protestant.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... Learn_more


Why is Wikipedia blacked-out?


Wikipedia is protesting against SOPA and PIPA by blacking out the English Wikipedia for 24 hours, beginning at midnight January 18, Eastern Time. Readers who come to English Wikipedia during the blackout will not be able to read the encyclopedia. Instead, you will see messages intended to raise awareness about SOPA and PIPA, encouraging you to share your views with your representatives, and with each other on social media.

What are SOPA and PIPA?

SOPA and PIPA represent two bills in the United States House of Representatives and the United States Senate respectively. SOPA is short for the "Stop Online Piracy Act," and PIPA is an acronym for the "Protect IP Act." ("IP" stands for "intellectual property.") In short, these bills are efforts to stop copyright infringement committed by foreign web sites, but, in our opinion, they do so in a way that actually infringes free expression while harming the Internet. Detailed information about these bills can be found in the Stop Online Piracy Act and PROTECT IP Act articles on Wikipedia, which are available during the blackout. GovTrack lets you follow both bills through the legislative process: SOPA on this page, and PIPA on this one. The EFF has summarized why these bills are simply unacceptable in a world that values an open, secure, and free Internet.

Why is the blackout happening?


Wikipedians have chosen to black out the English Wikipedia for the first time ever, because we are concerned that SOPA and PIPA will severely inhibit people's access to online information. This is not a problem that will solely affect people in the United States: it will affect everyone around the world.
Why? SOPA and PIPA are badly drafted legislation that won't be effective at their stated goal (to stop copyright infringement), and will cause serious damage to the free and open Internet. They put the burden on website owners to police user-contributed material and call for the unnecessary blocking of entire sites. Small sites won't have sufficient resources to defend themselves. Big media companies may seek to cut off funding sources for their foreign competitors, even if copyright isn't being infringed. Foreign sites will be blacklisted, which means they won't show up in major search engines. And, SOPA and PIPA build a framework for future restrictions and suppression.

Does this mean that Wikipedia itself is violating copyright laws, or hosting pirated content?

No, not at all. Some supporters of SOPA and PIPA characterize everyone who opposes them as cavalier about copyright, but that is not accurate. Wikipedians are knowledgeable about copyright and vigilant in protecting against violations: Wikipedians spend thousands of hours every week reviewing and removing infringing content. We are careful about it because our mission is to share knowledge freely. To that end, all Wikipedians release their contributions under a free license, and all the material we offer is freely licensed. Free licenses are incompatible with copyright infringement, and so infringement is not tolerated.

Isn't SOPA dead? Wasn't the bill shelved, and didn't the White House declare that it won't sign anything that resembles the current bill?

No, neither SOPA nor PIPA is dead. On January 17th, SOPA's sponsor said the bill will be discussed in early February. There are signs PIPA may be debated on the Senate floor next week. Moreover, SOPA and PIPA are just indicators of a much broader problem. In many jurisdictions around the world, we're seeing the development of legislation that prioritizes overly-broad copyright enforcement laws, laws promoted by power players, over the preservation of individual civil liberties.

How could SOPA and PIPA hurt Wikipedia?

SOPA and PIPA are a threat to Wikipedia in many ways. For example, in its current form, SOPA would require Wikipedia to actively monitor every site we link to, to ensure it doesn't host infringing content. Any link to an infringing site could put us in jeopardy of being forced offline.

I live in the United States. What's the best way for me to help?

The most effective action you can take is to call your representatives and tell them you oppose SOPA and PIPA, and any similar legislation. Type your zipcode in the locator box to find your representatives' contact information. Text-based communication is okay, but phone calls have the most impact.

I don't live in the United States. How can I help?

Contact your local State Department, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, or similar branch of government. Tell them you oppose SOPA and PIPA, and any similar legislation. SOPA and PIPA will affect sites outside of the United States, and actions to sites inside the United States (like Wikipedia) will also affect non-American readers -- like you. Calling your own government will also let them know you don't want them to create their own bad anti-Internet legislation.

Is it still possible to access Wikipedia in any way?

Yes. During the blackout, Wikipedia is accessible on mobile devices and smart phones. You can also view Wikipedia normally by disabling JavaScript in your browser, as explained on this Technical FAQ page. Our purpose here isn't to make it completely impossible for people to read Wikipedia, and it's okay for you to circumvent the blackout. We just want to make sure you see our message.

I keep hearing that this is a fight between Hollywood and Silicon Valley. Is that true?

No. Some people are characterizing it that way, probably in an effort to imply all the participants are motivated by commercial self-interest. But it's obviously not that simple. The proof of that is Wikipedia's involvement. Wikipedia has no financial self-interest at play here: we do not benefit from copyright infringement, nor are we trying to monetize traffic or sell ads. We are protesting to raise awareness about SOPA and PIPA solely because we think they will hurt the Internet, and your ability to access information online. We are doing this for you, because we're on your side.

In carrying out this protest, is Wikipedia abandoning neutrality?

We hope you continue to trust Wikipedia to be a neutral information source. We are staging this blackout because (as Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustee Kat Walsh said recently), although Wikipedia's articles are neutral, its existence is not. For over a decade, Wikipedians have spent millions of hours building the largest encyclopedia in human history. Wikipedia is a tremendously useful resource, and its existence depends upon a free, open and uncensored Internet. SOPA and PIPA (and other similar laws under discussion inside and outside the United States) will hurt you, because they will make it impossible for sites you enjoy, and benefit from, to continue to exist. That's why we're doing this.

And that's why this site is doing this.

Let me make this perfectly clear. If this bill gets passed into law, the internet as you know it today will no longer exist. What began as one of the greatest ideas to FREELY link the people of this planet together will die. Every single one of you should be faxing, e-mailing and calling your elected representatives to tell them that you oppose both of these Bills and any other similar Bill that affects the freedoms of the Internet. No one person owns the Internet and no one country owns it either. The materials we have in our library from Colt, Case and Ingersoll are not protected under copywrite law to the best of our knowledge but the fact that we did not generate those materials makes them suspect under the proposed legislation. And any materials that are "suspect" will be all the Internet Police need to kill off this site. Where does it stop?

The gigantic pool of information that is currently available on the internet will be gutted.... permanently. The ramifications of this will set the world back. In the past, ignorant people have sacked and burned libraries and places of learning for one cause or another. We look back at them and remark at how barbaric and unjustified those actions were and we cringe at the thought as to what great works were lost to the world forever. Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it and that is exactly what we are seeing here. YES.... I am all for protecting copywrite law and intellectual property but NOT at the expense of the civil liberties of every citizen. That's just wrong. It is tunnel-vision at its worst and it needs to be stopped before it gains traction and mows all of us down in the process.

Do your part to protect my rights, your rights, your children's rights and their children's rights. Get the e-mail address of your local Congressman and tell him/her that you are 100 percent opposed to these Bills or any other Bill that would sideline "due process" and trample on the civil liberties of US citizens. Canadians can do the same. Include the link to the news article so that your MP knows what you are talking about. Just don't sit there. To paraphrase a classic scene in the movie Network.

Get up out of your chairs. Go to the window and open it wide. Stick your head out and yell "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more."

 

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Like I've said before - the a-holes ruin everything for the good guys and we let them get away with it. Most of the restrictions in our daily lives have been put there because of a-holes who spoil things for the rest of us.

I highly doubt its forums such as this that brought all of this on (but of course we'd be punished for what others have done). So whats the driving force behind this? Gotta be something much bigger? Anybody know?
 

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Hydriv said:
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I was Protestant.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
None of this surprises me, we have allowed our elected leaders to assume way to much power and snub their noses at the constitution and the spirit of the constitution, there are so many more examples of big brotherism in our day to day lives. In no way is this what our founding fathers wanted, the United States remains in name only, I truly fear my goverment, may God help us all.

"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny" -Thomas Jefferson

"The road to hell was paved with good intentions" -Saint Bernard of Clairvaux

Sorry if this post gets political, however, this internet problem has a "ground zero" found elsewere.
 

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Imagine this happening to the internet - From the CL website....

Monster Cable has labeled craigslist a "rogue site," earmarked for blacklisting and full-takedown under PIPA -- resale of stereo cables by CL users reduces Monster 's new cable sales.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
walter kern said:
What would be the best way to protect copy rights?
It's called "legal redress". That is what both our countries are founded on. The legal system is supposed to be there to provide all sorts of protection but protection is a double-edged sword that cuts both ways. Someone who feels they have been harmed financially can seek monetary compensation through Civil action in the court system. From that point, it is up to them, as the Plaintiff, to tip the scale of justice in their direction. The person being sued (Defendant) is given the opportunity to show that the plaintiff is not owed what he claims is owed. Yes people....the system is flawed but for the most part it keeps people from picking up weapons and settling such matters themselves.

The proposed legislation is a sledgehammer approach to the problem and the worst part is that it presumes guilt.

There is a long history of protecting copy rights as well as trade marks. Lots of case-law exists on both topics.

It would seem that the major problem at hand is this. Countries such as China are unwilling to clamp down on their own citizens who violate copyright laws. Chinese entrepreneurs crank out DVD's of pirated movies and offer them for low prices on the internet. Not far from me is a Mall that is almost 100 percent run by Chinese-Canadians. A few years ago, I could go in there and buy the latest movie releases for as little as a buck, providing I bought at least 15 different titles. Were they the greatest copies? Not always. Some of them were shot with a camcorder in a movie theatre but many were made from pre-release DVD's that had been sent to movie reviewers and other people in the industry. Everybody is willing to see a movie at least once. After that........it's just money sitting in the drawer.

I can understand why Hollywood wants to find a way to crack down on these guys because millions were spent to make the movie and they are entitled to a decent return on their investment. Keep in mind that they make lots of movies that lose money or barely break even. It's a risky business. One only has to look back at some movies such as Heaven's Gate for an example on how things can go horribly wrong. Director Michael Cimino (The Deer Hunter) was given free rein by United Artists for his next film, Heaven's Gate (1980). The film came in several times over budget. After its release, it proved to be a financial disaster that nearly bankrupted the studio. DUNE was another turkey.

However, as much as I feel for the studios in their quest to find a way to stop the blood-letting, this type of legislation is just to dangerous to allow passage into law. Once it is in, it can be directed at targets it was never intended to strike. It's like a guided missile on crack-cocaine. You just don't know where it is going to end up striking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
BushBoneYard said:
Imagine this happening to the internet - From the CL website....

Monster Cable has labeled craigslist a "rogue site," earmarked for blacklisting and full-takedown under PIPA -- resale of stereo cables by CL users reduces Monster 's new cable sales.
By the way. Craigslist also went dark yesterday in support of the Reddit/Wiki protest.

This ain't over folks. You are going to hear a lot about this in the coming months.
 

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Hydriv said:
This ain't over folks. You are going to hear a lot about this in the coming months.
That's a fact. I think "they" will try to take a smaller nibble next time instead of a huge bite, fly under the radar. The working man is on notice, the guy with the $400 haircut is at it again :gums:
 

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BushBoneYard said:
Hydriv said:
This ain't over folks. You are going to hear a lot about this in the coming months.
That's a fact. I think "they" will try to take a smaller nibble next time instead of a huge bite, fly under the radar. The working man is on notice, the guy with the $400 haircut is at it again :gums:
I completely agree....the A**holes in congress and boardrooms will be more subtle next time :twisted: No matter if you are Republican,Democrat or independent you have to agree that this is the absolute worst congress in history!The sad thing is that "we the people" voted these idiots into power. :oops: Remember, vote the Bastards out!!!!! :usa: Also,Thank You to Tom for highlighting this issue :thumbsup:
 
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